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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS trust compares women who want single-sex spaces to "racists"

64 replies

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 21/04/2024 14:33

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/27444783/nhs-trust-women-sharing-loos-men-like-racism/

Sorry about it being The Sun.

Surprise surprise, it's Cambridge, home of Simon "autism is an extreme male brain" Baron-Cohen and a Rape Crisis centre that lets males answer the phones.

NHS trust likens patients worried at sharing loos with opposite sex to racists

BOSSES at an NHS trust have likened patients who object to sharing loos with people of the opposite sex to racists. Internal advice says says “concerns alone” should not stop trans people being tre…

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/27444783/nhs-trust-women-sharing-loos-men-like-racism

OP posts:
VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 21/04/2024 17:20

FlakyPoet · 21/04/2024 17:10

I wonder if it is part of the legacy of the charming councillor whose actions led to Ann Sinnott’s resignation.

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/cambridge-transgender-toilets-ann-sinnott-14975106

Who was also on Stonewall’s Trans Advisory Board.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20180816020010/www.stonewall.org.uk/trans-advisory-group" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20180816020010/www.stonewall.org.uk/trans-advisory-group

That guy is also one of the LGBT+ LibDem people.

OP posts:
RethinkingLife · 21/04/2024 17:33

During the night a male patient became threatening and violent, he was shouting ‘no women touch me’ when nurses tried to administer his medication.

It doesn't diminish the danger posed but, depending on age and condition*, it's not implausible that he was also reacting in (post-surgical) delirium as well as a preference for male nurses for his care.

"incidence ranges from 9% to 87% depending on both the patient population and the degree of operative stress*"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2546478/

Postoperative delirium in the elderly: diagnosis and management

Delirium is a common but often undiagnosed complication in the elderly following a major operation. Recognizing the presentation of delirium and the criteria to establish the diagnosis of delirium will improve a clinician’s ability to detect this ...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2546478

RosesAndHellebores · 21/04/2024 17:33

It's disgraceful but the sexism within the NHS is systemic. The hospitals under my local trust call men to their appointments as Mr John Smith; women as Jane Smith. Men are afforded the courtesy of their title(s) and women aren't. Therefore at the most basic level women are treated less favourably than men. I challenge it every time and every time I get the NHS eyeroll.

Notwithstanding the fact that almost every Dr introduces themselves with their title and assumes they may use my first name. When I have asked their first name, they have often been palpably shocked. I have heard the same consultants and nurses refer to a man as "hello Mr Smith, how are you today, Sir! Equality my foot.

St George's, St Helier and Epsom Hospitals.

Saintmariesleuth · 21/04/2024 17:39

@Rrg I'm sorry you had such a scary experience.

HDU beds are commonly mixed and this breach is usually classed as 'justified' in NHS guidance.

There quite often are no male nurses (or any male staff) in some wards so that can raise issues around single sex care as it is not always able to be accommodated for a male.

If the nurses needed to physically restrain the shouting man, it sounds as if he may have had post-operative delirium, but obviously, I can only speculate. However, a medic should have been contacted (there should be one in the near vicinity of an HDU area) and the trust security team. I would definitely report this experience if it was recent, as it sounds like this incident might need further looking into (or it might have already been reported, and they may be able to explain what steps have been put in place for the future).

I hope that your recovery is going well and I'm sorry that you need further treatment

NonLinguisticRhetoricIsMyKryptonite · 21/04/2024 17:45

SMS: HDU beds are commonly mixed and this breach is usually classed as 'justified' in NHS guidance.

My reading of Rrg is that she was sent to the mixed ward from HDU not that she was in HDU at the time.

I was recently sent to a mixed post surgical ward from HDU and my experience was shocking and very frightening.

mrshoho · 21/04/2024 17:53

So glad The Sun has covered this. Shameful from this NHS Trust.

#let them speak.

Saintmariesleuth · 21/04/2024 17:54

@NonLinguisticRhetoricIsMyKryptonite apologies, I missed that. Even more reason that I hope Rrg feels able to complain if she was on a mixed sex ward.

FlakyPoet · 21/04/2024 18:15

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 21/04/2024 17:20

That guy is also one of the LGBT+ LibDem people.

I believe this is written by one of Brown’s poly partners. (According to the Stonewall bio Brown started up ‘transdocfail’) I’ll need to check though. You can see all the ‘originals’ on this collection of tweets on the hashtag in the post. Brown talks bizarrely about having a gynaecologist…. I wonder what someone with nothing gynae about them would visit a gynaecologist for? 🫤 Also, when Challenor was ousted from the Green Party, Challenor joined the Lib Dem’s too iirc. https://www.complicity.co.uk/blog/2013/01/transdocfail-lowlight/

#TransDocFail hashtag: The Lowlights - Complicity

Following on from the news that one of the few private doctors dealing with Trans issues has had complaints made against him by fellow doctors, Sarah Brown suggested that Trans people tweet their bad experiences of doctors using the #TransDocFail hasht...

https://www.complicity.co.uk/blog/2013/01/transdocfail-lowlight/

Riapia · 21/04/2024 18:39

They are only discriminating against the women that were born without a penis.

Isthisexpected · 21/04/2024 18:47

Riapia · 21/04/2024 18:39

They are only discriminating against the women that were born without a penis.

Which is okay because it's not real discrimination - you have to have a penis but feel like you don't for it to be real.

FlakyPoet · 21/04/2024 18:51

FlakyPoet · 21/04/2024 18:15

I believe this is written by one of Brown’s poly partners. (According to the Stonewall bio Brown started up ‘transdocfail’) I’ll need to check though. You can see all the ‘originals’ on this collection of tweets on the hashtag in the post. Brown talks bizarrely about having a gynaecologist…. I wonder what someone with nothing gynae about them would visit a gynaecologist for? 🫤 Also, when Challenor was ousted from the Green Party, Challenor joined the Lib Dem’s too iirc. https://www.complicity.co.uk/blog/2013/01/transdocfail-lowlight/

I was right about the poly thing

Sarah Brown - LGBT Archive

https://www.lgbthistoryuk.org/wiki/Sarah_Brown

LakeTiticaca · 21/04/2024 19:47

So this NHS trust, this public institution that WE pay for, has labelled 50 percent of its "customers" ,nay 50 percent of the public as racists.
How insulting. The government needs to get a grip and stop all this nonsense ASAP!!

RosesAndHellebores · 21/04/2024 20:27

Rrg · 21/04/2024 16:38

I was recently sent to a mixed post surgical ward from HDU and my experience was shocking and very frightening.
During the night a male patient became threatening and violent, he was shouting ‘no women touch me’ when nurses tried to administer his medication. There were NO male nurses on duty on the ward and eventually after four petite nurses tried to restrain him ( he was trying to thump them) another patient stepped up, a big burly guy who was very calm and collected. The Rescuer was very apologetic to the nurses! Who knows what would have happened had he not acted. I am likely due more surgery soon and afraid because of this incident . When I went onto a ward last week, I noted the night shift changeover, yet again no male staff on a mixed ward.

Whilst you have my every sympathy, I don't think what you experienced arose from being in a mixed sex ward. It arose from the tolerance and acceptance of anti-social behaviour from those in charge of and working in our hospitals. It's a question of basic standards and they are sadly lacking throughout the NHS. The people working in the NHS have lost the grip on normal, respectful conduct.

Jeannie88 · 21/04/2024 21:07

Why has the world become so complicated? A simple view would be if u have lady bits you go into the female category of care, if you have male then male category? If inbetween and transitioning then whatever parts are the most predominant? Hospital staff just want to get on with their jobs and treat patients. Xx

FlakyPoet · 21/04/2024 21:12

Jeannie88 · 21/04/2024 21:07

Why has the world become so complicated? A simple view would be if u have lady bits you go into the female category of care, if you have male then male category? If inbetween and transitioning then whatever parts are the most predominant? Hospital staff just want to get on with their jobs and treat patients. Xx

I don’t agree. Men can be obnoxious, domineering and inappropriately sexual amongst women even if they’ve had their male ‘bits’ removed and pseudo lady ‘bits’ added. Watch footage of Celebrity Big Brother in ‘the year of the woman’ for a good illustration.

Keeprejoining · 21/04/2024 21:17

I'm actually thrilled the Sun is reporting this. It's gets the news out to a new demographic, who will be very interested in seeing what's happening

Mumaway · 21/04/2024 21:23

Post op this week, single sex ward, but then a man put in a side room. They changed one of the loos to mens just for him, but he repeatedly tried to use the ladies down the corridor,.despite repeatedly being asked not to buy staff and other patients (including me). Arsehole.

Thelnebriati · 21/04/2024 21:43

During the night a male patient became threatening and violent, he was shouting ‘no women touch me’ when nurses tried to administer his medication.

Ramadan ended a few weeks ago, he may have been Muslim. You'd think the anti racist NHS would have realised some men would prefer male staff on religious grounds.

Jeannie88 · 21/04/2024 22:04

FlakyPoet · 21/04/2024 21:12

I don’t agree. Men can be obnoxious, domineering and inappropriately sexual amongst women even if they’ve had their male ‘bits’ removed and pseudo lady ‘bits’ added. Watch footage of Celebrity Big Brother in ‘the year of the woman’ for a good illustration.

Ok, guess I didn't think as far that once men have transitioned to women this could be the case. As I stated, the world has become a lot more complicated so trying to understand every part of the issues is a challenge while just coping with life yet trying to be aware. In one's own life there are so many overwhelming things, the reality of loss, real life problems 💔, keeping up with media and opinions on so many themes is a bit of a luxury to dip into as a distraction. Xx

nhswankers · 21/04/2024 22:09

Ahem, name changed for obvious reasons.

This is my employer. The policy is far worse than the bits quoted (though the 'compare women who don't want men on the women's ward to racists' is a highlight). It says that staff have to gaslight women patients who object, or willl be found to have breached the TWs privacy and be hauled up before a disciplinary committee. It refers to decision making about placing children under 16 according to their natal sex versus their 'true gender'. The staff policy says that a TW staff member should be allowed to use female changing rooms as soon as they 'socially transition' and female staff who object should not be listened to And that it's completely up tot the trans staff member if they don't tell anyone they're trans (informed consent anyone?). It also wrongly says that the genuine occupational qualification which would bar a man from a role, also bars a TM for the same role.

In case anyone hasn't put the two together, this is the same hospital where a Paediatric Haematology consultant sexually abused children with cancer. This hospital above all others should be shit hot on safeguarding. But no, instead they're in the Stonewall scheme and get the Kite Trust to dictate their policies, which discriminate against women and religious people and endanger children.

I have raised concerns about this policy, more than once. Each time I raise a concern, the outcome is that I need more training to better understand the needs of trans people, and the policy stays the same.The 'freedom to speak up guardian', who is meant to be outside the hospital management structure and is meant to be neutral, has pronouns in her email signature. The DEI person is a TM, as is the Unison rep. They are completely and totally captured, and if this media attention is what it takes to change this, then I'm glad it's come out in any newspaper which is willing to report it.

Keeprejoining · 21/04/2024 22:23

I hope this report in the sun is the start of an in-depth expose of the problems with women's rights and safeguarding being eroded under the trans rights movement.
It's so far reaching if you heard all of it in one go you wouldn't be able to take it in.

RainWithSunnySpells · 21/04/2024 22:28

That's terrifying.

Lying to women is part of their policy! I know that I shouldn't be shocked (I have read about the rape incident https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744 ) but it still shocks me because it's just so cruel and manipulative to lie like that to hospital patients.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/04/2024 23:17

nhswankers · 21/04/2024 22:09

Ahem, name changed for obvious reasons.

This is my employer. The policy is far worse than the bits quoted (though the 'compare women who don't want men on the women's ward to racists' is a highlight). It says that staff have to gaslight women patients who object, or willl be found to have breached the TWs privacy and be hauled up before a disciplinary committee. It refers to decision making about placing children under 16 according to their natal sex versus their 'true gender'. The staff policy says that a TW staff member should be allowed to use female changing rooms as soon as they 'socially transition' and female staff who object should not be listened to And that it's completely up tot the trans staff member if they don't tell anyone they're trans (informed consent anyone?). It also wrongly says that the genuine occupational qualification which would bar a man from a role, also bars a TM for the same role.

In case anyone hasn't put the two together, this is the same hospital where a Paediatric Haematology consultant sexually abused children with cancer. This hospital above all others should be shit hot on safeguarding. But no, instead they're in the Stonewall scheme and get the Kite Trust to dictate their policies, which discriminate against women and religious people and endanger children.

I have raised concerns about this policy, more than once. Each time I raise a concern, the outcome is that I need more training to better understand the needs of trans people, and the policy stays the same.The 'freedom to speak up guardian', who is meant to be outside the hospital management structure and is meant to be neutral, has pronouns in her email signature. The DEI person is a TM, as is the Unison rep. They are completely and totally captured, and if this media attention is what it takes to change this, then I'm glad it's come out in any newspaper which is willing to report it.

Well done and thank you for raising these issues at work Flowers.
It defies belief that a hospital that has been through such a dreadful case as that paedophile doctor abusing so many children hands over their safeguarding to groups openly working to erode the safety of women and children.

BlackeyedSusan · 21/04/2024 23:33

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/04/2024 16:37

They're discriminating against female people.

They are discriminating against Muslim and Jewish women, so they are the ones being racist and antisemitic. As well as discriminating against disabled women.

CheeseSandwichRiskAssessment · 22/04/2024 00:05

Do they know that skin colour doesn't rape people??