Libraries promoting body mutilation as “joy” in Norfolk

[CarobBean72]

Anyone here from Norfolk?

Norwich Millennium Library has a display of “Trans Joy”, apparently aimed at children & young people, which IMHO promotes body mutilation & self harm of women & girls & glorifies drug use. In the wake of the Cass Report it’s incredibly irresponsible.

It includes images of hypodermic needles for injecting testosterone, a packer & mastectomy scars, with the slogan “Self-made men play God right”.

Most disturbing is a small figurine of a woman’s lower half, cut off at waist & knees, bearing what appears to be a hysterectomy scar & what is either a pseudo-phallus ( an appendage made from a flap of tissue removed from the woman’s arm or thigh, rolled up and sewn to the groin to mimic a penis ) or a hypertrophied clitoris, one of the often painful effects of testosterone on the female body.

The display is accessible to children as the cabinets stand only a couple of feet high, designed for a child’s eye line and it’s placed next to the 8-14 book section. The cases are by the entrance - not noticeable when you go in but inescapable when you leave.

I can’t believe someone okayed this. If it was promoting anorexia or cutting or glorifying steroid abuse to children and teenagers, we’d all see it for what it is. Instead, it’s promoting self-mutilation under the banner of “Trans Joy”.

It’s especially irresponsible in the week the Cass Review revealed how poor the evidence base for so-called “gender affirming care” is and how little followup there has been to assess regret and de-transition rates.

Ive been trying to find a contact for the head of Norfolk Library Services - it’s a woman called Kerry Murray, who is also the Safeguarding Lead! But I can’t find any email listing for her.

Any suggestions?

Sharing images with trepidation: it’s a horror show!

Post edited by MNHQ

“Respectfully, cisgender is a medical term”

With all the respect due to you (i.e. not much), no, it is not.

Gender identity is fabricated, nebulous, meaningless nonsense.

And intersex is not a third sex.

The absolute brass neck of you, coming here after all the years intelligent, rational educated women from all professions and all walks of life have considered and discussed this new religion and dismissed it with reason and logic and think the same mindless catechisms repeated ad infinitum by every two-bit bottom-level thinker that’s been here before you are going to sway them?

Really?!

Can I just point out that the person lecturing us appears to think that MAP is some form of good thing that people can be organised into see this copy and paste:-
"I'd say that many trans people especially face intense backlash so it makes sense why so many struggle psychologically as this world wasn't made with them in mind. I think it's great that services like MAP exist to help all people who struggle & high rates of said group just go to show that society makes it way harder for them to peacefully function. What are your thoughts?"

I think we are now closer to decades.

The Vanity Fair cover was definitely a peak for me, and there were others peaked long before that, that cover, (where Jenner is not coincidentally dressed as an aging starlet from the era of Jenner’s puberty) was 2015.

I agree that adolescent youths can get things wrong about themselves whilst growing up as it's a natural part of self discovery. I can agree for a fact that in my adolescence I have considered many factors that I later realised weren't for me. I feel that many people experience this whilst they're still developing, & giving them the floor to explore helps them answer their questions. Societal support during exploration helps in making your mind up, because when you hear people refer to you how you asked it makes you feel either affirmed or the opposite. Isn't this healthy? I'd say my adolescent years helped me feel affirmed in my gender, sexuality & even physical expression as it is now. Considering that medical transitioning is accessible later in life, societal transitioning for adolescents is an easy way to figure out whether that's what you'd want later on.

I think adolescents should be taken seriously in their discoveries so that they feel accepted either way & know that their value isn't based on whether they're cis or trans. That way they wouldn't feel like they have to be a certain way to fulfil others' expectations of them — I mean there are many adolescents who detransition because of how much they've been invalidated & their close ones seeing them in a negative light.

I just had a quick look at ROGD on Wiki & to my understanding it's a hypothesis which states that people experience gender dysphoria due to peer influence. Are you familiar with the term body dysmorphia? It's something that cisgender people also experience so I imagine if an adolescent felt uncomfortable in their body & wasn't aware of body dysmorphia being a thing, they could think they're experiencing gender dysphoria. This can be easily fixed by educating them on dysmorphia as it's very common & majority of people have experienced it in their lifetimes. I can see that the hypothesis you mentioned isn't scientifically supported & to my understanding the majority of detransitioning is caused by societal disapproval in some way (I have linked a study in my second comment to do with this). Fetishists prey on the transgender community as they do with many others, like sexual orientation or nationality which I personally experienced. Are you implying fetishism of body positivity from members of the public or that trans people are fetishists? After all, nakedness shouldn't be seen as something remotely sexual.

I agree that womanhood is painted as inferior by society & that if it wasn't treated as less, we wouldn't have young women & girls doubting or repressing their femininity. It's heartbreaking to see that this is still an issue. At the same time, cis women conflicted on their womanhood for these reasons are not the same as trans men & transmasculine individuals.

Thank you for clarifying. I was using it how it's described in the Oxford dictionary, as it's not a derogatory term. How would you prefer for me to describe the majority group of people who feel affirmed with sex assigned to them at birth? Someone mentioned feminist, but I feel that if I used that I'd describe the entire global movement which stands for equal rights for all & not necessarily the societal group I mentioned. Do you have any alternative suggestions?

This display of graphic medically altered sexual organs and scars etc and surgery artefacts is to any sensible adult, wildly inappropriate for kids.

If the ‘trans joy’ promoters think kids and adults should all see the same things, then shouldn’t they be campaigning for the removal of the children’s (and adults) book sections completely? Who needs age restrictions on readers if age restrictions are so meaningless

We have the words. The ones who are different get the adjectives.

@BeHappyHedgehog

Isn't this healthy?

No, affirming something that isn't real is not healthy.

I see you are familiar with body dysmorphia. You should therefore also be aware that a course of treatment wouldn't involve mutilating someone to remove body parts that are causing distress, and that the doctor would be struck off.

Instead people are counselled to accept the reality of their situation and become comfortable with who the actually are, not what they really really really want to be.

Sex is not "assigned" at birth, it is observed and recorded.

No human can or has ever changed sex.

No, no. It's not aimed at kids. So they definitely won't look.

Oh, I know this one. If you live in the USA and like football you're a woman, if in Mexico you're a man. So if you sit straddling Trump's border wall with a leg each side you're intersex.

First of all, I do not promote body mutilation. As mentioned in one of my previous comments, trans healthcare isn't considered mutilation & if you're referring to the healed self harm scars, they signify overcoming that dark place of self hate. I wish self harm didn't happen but we can't deny that it does & people's healing & showing that life doesn't end at that point is the point of that piece.

Second of all, please point me to where I used such offensive language to describe you guys. I came here to have a discussion & learn more from the constructive replies. I also never described people on this forum as women as I'm aware that not only women use this forum, in fact I never put any direct phrasing aimed at all the people on this forum at all. The only time I spoke directly to people is in replies & I have tried my best to use neutral terms when speaking directly to them

Trans healthcare isn't considered mutilation

Isn't considered mutilation by who exactly? Because in the absence of evidence that it works as a medical treatment, and when people can decide exactly what medical condition is being treated, then it most certainly is mutilation.

But how often did you think about the Romans?

Dear Hedgehog, cis is a term of total piffle, back constructed from trans, to ascribe a willingness to be stereotyped to those who simply acknowledge their sex.

And before you start on derivations, I am familiar with both Latin and chemistry.

The likes of Benny Hill taken off of TV yet they promote this evilness!

@BeHappyHedgehog

Someone posted this link to an article, written by a transwoman, on the subject of referring to women as Cis, on a different thread.

You might find it thought provoking?

https://genderapostates.com/cissexism-and-you

I'm thinking about your own advice re the importance of being open minded to learning different views and experiences:

"It's important for a person to grow & develop critical thinking through actually processing other people's ideas with a receptive mind."

Yes. It's good to listen to and critically examine perspectives from those who don't align with your existing views, experience and knowledge standpoints at all, as well as those who do in some areas but not others- as much as you expose yourself to those you already align with.

Either without pre -conceptions- or at least being aware of them.

Yes?

It seems to me, that your apparent aim on this thread so far, has been only to give (educate) and not recieve (learn/process)

I note in your response to the post referring you to the trans widows thread, for example, that you have totally misunderstood even the meaning of the term- which suggests you didn't actually look at it at all?

Many of us who post on this board, came here years ago. From a place of seeking understanding. Often feeling we had an instinctive response to changes that were happening that made us question all of our beliefs and understanding.

I am glad for that process, as through it I have certainly vastly improved my critical thinking. More than at any other point in my life I realise.

On that journey (speaking for myself here), I read and observed and listened widely- from all viewpoints and experiences to ('develop critical thinking' on the topic, as you say).
Even now, that I have found my place with it, I still look at alternative views and question myself to check I have not become entrenched ('stagnant', as you would say)

I think it is a sign of critical thinking to question yourself- if you find yourself feeling you never have any doubts at all in your position. Would you agree?

I also think that there is a difference between being young and brought up into new ways of thinking with no prior experiences to scaffold that understanding on, and having lived through several cultural shifts. A different meaning to 'lived experience' I think. Not the lived experience of specific identity, but the lived experience of having lived through, and even been instrumental, in major cultural moments.

When posters feel patronised by you on here, particularly in terms of feminism, it will be because they have lived the changes and impacts of feminism in a way that a student, say, has only academic theory of.

Many of us here, also spent a long time observing the FWR board- with curiosity and humility- based on a desire to learn from the many highly educated and experienced posters, as well as those with deeply personal experiences- before posting anything. We took the time to absorb and process, before jumping in with existing thoughts and opinions.

I appreciate you have come to this thread out-of a desire to defend a friend.

In terms of the wider discussion that you've brought though:
I think it would lead to better engagement for you if you could come from that desire to learn and understand that you eloquently proposed, rather than from a place of secure knowledge.

Apologies if this sounds patronising.

Totally misses the point. Genitals, syringes and scars are not appropriate for children to see without warning. Doesn't matter who they are attached to and how they present or don't present or whatever. That's the issue here, not trans people. I think what people are saying, is that, because this exhibition happens to be about trans people, this has blinded the organisers to the basic fact that it's inappropriate material for small children.

Thank you for sharing the link. I'm glad that more studies are being done on the subject. I understand the effect puberty blockers have on fertility, & how much higher the risk of that is when an adolescent goes on those. The people I had on my mind when giving that example were trans people who started their transition in adulthood, i.e. past the point where they could use puberty blockers. Hormone therapy on its own works differently when it comes to fertility, which also varies based on dosage & onset of treatment — my bad for not making that point clearer.

I completely agree that children & adolescents who suspect they're trans should be given all the information, especially the irreversible effects. To my knowledge it is very difficult to actually access trans healthcare, especially here in the UK, as NHS waiting lists take a few years to get through to even get a diagnosis for gender incongruence or dysphoria & puberty blockers are getting banned. Most people also need years to save up for any treatments or surgeries, which gives plenty of time to reconsider & get more educated on what's in their interest & some are never able to actually go through with it for financial reasons. Also the colour in those pieces represents the flag so it makes a lot of sense that the artists chose to incorporate that

@BeHappyHedgehog Earlier you posted:

I think it's great that services like MAP exist to help all people who struggle & high rates of said group just go to show that society makes it way harder for them to peacefully function.

May I ask what you think the term "MAP" refers to in the context of this discussion?

To finish this off, representation shouldn't feel like a threat. There is space for all of us in this world & just because you're used to art that's more understandable to you, doesn't mean that all other art shouldn't exist.

Ugh to the point I now regret engaging with you at all. Grow up. Don't pose as someone wanting to genuinely engage when you do it with this lack of respect. Least not when you intend to lecture people on being more respectful. Kudos to the people bothering to answer you.

Based on the definition "a range of socio-political movements and ideologies that aim to define and establish the political, economic, personal, and social equality of the sexes" from Wiki, it seems that the general understanding is that. The movement centres women because of the inequalities & focuses on bringing women up to the same deserved respectability as men. Isn't this aiming for equality for all? Feminism is about women getting a platform, of course, but what I'm trying to say is that it aims for everyone having equal grounds to stand on

Wiki 🤣

There are posters on here who do not know what a PP was referring to when they mentioned MAPs, and so have made some startling errors in their posts about this. I do know what they meant by the acronym, but maybe that poster could come back to clarify it themselves to prevent any confusion which could be created by my doing the clarifying?