Libraries promoting body mutilation as “joy” in Norfolk

[CarobBean72]

Anyone here from Norfolk?

Norwich Millennium Library has a display of “Trans Joy”, apparently aimed at children & young people, which IMHO promotes body mutilation & self harm of women & girls & glorifies drug use. In the wake of the Cass Report it’s incredibly irresponsible.

It includes images of hypodermic needles for injecting testosterone, a packer & mastectomy scars, with the slogan “Self-made men play God right”.

Most disturbing is a small figurine of a woman’s lower half, cut off at waist & knees, bearing what appears to be a hysterectomy scar & what is either a pseudo-phallus ( an appendage made from a flap of tissue removed from the woman’s arm or thigh, rolled up and sewn to the groin to mimic a penis ) or a hypertrophied clitoris, one of the often painful effects of testosterone on the female body.

The display is accessible to children as the cabinets stand only a couple of feet high, designed for a child’s eye line and it’s placed next to the 8-14 book section. The cases are by the entrance - not noticeable when you go in but inescapable when you leave.

I can’t believe someone okayed this. If it was promoting anorexia or cutting or glorifying steroid abuse to children and teenagers, we’d all see it for what it is. Instead, it’s promoting self-mutilation under the banner of “Trans Joy”.

It’s especially irresponsible in the week the Cass Review revealed how poor the evidence base for so-called “gender affirming care” is and how little followup there has been to assess regret and de-transition rates.

Ive been trying to find a contact for the head of Norfolk Library Services - it’s a woman called Kerry Murray, who is also the Safeguarding Lead! But I can’t find any email listing for her.

Any suggestions?

Sharing images with trepidation: it’s a horror show!

Post edited by MNHQ

When you say "the brain anatomy " what do you mean by that?

Gender identity is simply your own identity within yourself.

A wonderfully meaningless statement.

Because in BeHappyHedgehog's post @ 14:21, BeHappyHedgehog describes BeHappyHedgehogself as trans.

Which means if BeHappyHedgehog doesn't consider BeHappyHedgehogself a man now, BeHappyHedgehog was born one.

Yes sure, so a small majority of people (like 0.5% of the world's population I think) are born with chromosome patterns that differ from the typical XX & XY patterns. For example there's people with Turner's syndrome, which is when there is absence of 1 of the X chromosomes (XO) & people with Klinefelter's syndrome, which is when there is an extra X chromosome (XXY). The first group is usually assigned female at birth & the second male at birth as they have quite prominent physical characteristics of those sexes. These are known as atypical sex chromosome patterns, but sometimes not considered intersex due to prominent dominance of one sex's characteristics/anatomy. There are also people who are born with a mix of sexual characteristics from both sexes. If it isn't distinct to tell straight away after birth, many only find out they are intersex later in life once they start getting certain symptoms, e.g. someone who has been assigned male at birth due to many primary & secondary male sexual characteristics could find out that they have a uterus through a scan, or someone who has been assigned female at birth experiencing facial hair growth, bottom growth & no chest growth once they start puberty. To my knowledge people with atypical chromosome patterns are infertile as their reproductive systems don't function in the same way as XX & XY would

Meaning all those who say being trans is an "innate feeling" are <clutches pearls> wrong?

Does this mean their lived experience is being denied?!

No, ducky, that's not a third sex. That's a disorder of sexual development and does not produce a third sex.

Do try reading the discussion on FWR rather than trying to lecture.

And 'majority group of people who feel affirmed with sex assigned to them at birth' it just such piffle. Most people know themselves to be of one sex or the other. They don't feel affirmed in it. They just have a body of one sex or the other.

I am guessing from the "third sex" lecture that hedgehog hasn't done a lot of reading of the past FWR threads. 🤔

You implied it with every point you attempted to make. Your tone is the epitome of patronising.

What does the anatomy of Eddie Izzard's brain look like? Does it morph from boy mode to girl mode?

Seriously?? That is extraordinarily self-centred.These people's experiences have precisely nothing to do with you!! Your existence as a trans person is nothing to do with their issues. For them, clearly, transgenderism was the issue. That doesn't mean that suddenly all transgender people aren't valid!!!

Well said @Depressedbarbie

I know, right? Imagine realising you are a transmedicalist (basically a TERF!!!) by denying that anyone is trans just by saying they are trans... Which side of history would that be???

BeHappyHedgehog · Today 13:02

Are you familiar with the term body dysmorphia?

No. Literally none of us here have ever heard the term, much less spent ages discussing it.

@BeHappyHedgehog Your explanation of the "third sex" is very muddled and actually offensive in parts.
Obviously I don't know where in the world you live, but "intersex" is an outdated term in the UK.
Here is a link to the NHS definition of Klinefelter syndrome, which affects only males.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/klinefelters-syndrome/
Note this sentence: "Boys and men with Klinefelter syndrome are still genetically male".
There is no such thing as a third sex.

It's like it's 2017 all over again.

@BeHappyHedgehog I’m an art historian and have no issue with the artworks in themselves - just their placements. In the same way I have no issues with many controversial or challenging artworks, but don’t think they should be on display in a public library.

I think the key point here is that for the majority of people on this board, the concept of ‘gender identity’ is a belief, akin to a religious belief. I don’t personally believe that people have a gender identity. I also don’t believe that jesus was the son of god or that there is no god but allah. That doesn’t make me transphobic, christian-phobic or islamophobic. I respect and am friends with many people whose beliefs I don’t share - for example, i’m an atheist and my best friend is a christian. I don’t doubt the strength or genuine nature of her belief, and I don’t doubt the genuine nature of yours, either. I only have a problem with the beliefs of others if they expect me to profess that I believe the same thing, or if their beliefs impinge on my own safety and freedoms, or, as in the topic at hand, if they involve children’s safety and lack of medical evidence/safeguarding.

I appreciate that the ‘social contagion’ argument must feel reductive and hurtful - I’m bisexual myself and am familiar with the ‘it’s just a phase’ brigade. The difference here is that being gay or bisexual doesn’t involve making permenant changes to one’s body while still a child, and i’m sure you’ll agree that what we all want, ultimately, is for young people to get the evidence based and sensitive support and care they deserve.

Does that make sense? I appreciate that you’ve come here to defend your friend and to engage in discussion without being aggressive or rude (not saying you would be, but we’ve had bad experiences on this board before) - respectful debate and willingness to listen to the views of others is the best way forward for us all as adults in a civilised society.

(edited to add a bit about social contagion and because I can’t spell today!)

Beowulfa · Today 13:22

Oh, I know this one. If you live in the USA and like football you're a woman, if in Mexico you're a man. So if you sit straddling Trump's border wall with a leg each side you're intersex.

😂😂

Ha. In all this gish gallop, I missed that. I was going by the style of writing/argumentation.

@BeHappyHedgehog asked

”How would you prefer for me to describe the majority group of people who feel affirmed with sex assigned to them at birth?”

Non-existent, because nobody has a sex assigned at birth. This is an utterly false concept & one with a disturbing history.

Insofar as sex can be said to be “assigned” it happens at conception, not at birth. Sex is observed thereafter, with a very high degree of accuracy, usually in the second trimester, and recorded at birth. Very very seldom is an error made in the observation - but that doesn’t mean your sex is “reassigned”, because it was fixed long before they saw you, but that observation can err.

Use of the phrase “sex assigned at birth” & the offensive & outdated phrase “intersex” refers to the fortunately abandoned practice of surgically mutilating those rare newborns with ambiguous genitals to make them outwardly conform to what the doctors thought would pass better as the physique of whichever sex they considered they looked most like. In other words stereotypes based on purely superficial criteria.

It betrays both your ignorance of sex & gestation & your appropriation of the medical conditions of people with DSDs that you use this kind of terminology.

Hmm. Trans people are intersex / third sex and have brains very similar to those of the opposite sex, on brain scans. I see. And what about the more recent studies, which show that it's virtually impossible to tell, using brain scans - once size differences are removed?

Just been reading through - Hedgehog, it seems that you have a simplistic idea that any adolescent girl in psychological pain because of approaching sexual maturity just has body dysmorphia (have we heard of this??😂) and this can be easily treated. You have no idea of the depths and complexity of psychological problems that can arise, and no understanding of teenage girls or what it is to be one. This is simplistic nonsense, surface level understanding. There are a lot of parents on here who have cared for a disturbed adolescent through depression, anorexia, self harm and other painful and long lasting difficulties. And it is not simple or easy to come through.

Thank you for sharing. I believe I have learned a lot from people on this thread. I have looked into pieces sent to me so it feels that I will be exiting this discussion with more knowledge. As I mentioned in a different reply, the reason why I specifically didn't read further into other sections of the website was because the "Transwidows" section implied transgenderism was the root of mental illnesses. If the language was more neutral & didn't entangle the two I would've loved to learn more, just not at the expense of being told that my identity is the root of all problems. I did mention that if anyone was willing to send through quotes or elaborations to do with the website, so that I can learn without having to read the parts that I find harmful, I would greatly appreciate it & that point still stands.

Having personal perspective definitely plays a part in my viewpoint because for starters I know gender dysphoria is real & so is my identity; if I'm experiencing it & I have a community who can vouch for themselves experiencing it too, to me that's secure knowledge — that undeniably, people with identities that aren't congruent with their sex exist. Seeing descriptions like "woman" of the pieces although the exhibit is very clearly about trans visibility paints a picture of somewhat denial, or even erasure of identities. In no way, shape or form I'm trying to invalidate anyone on here, I'm simply saying that our existence is real too. It's nothing to be scared of, & the backlash my friend's art has faced shows that it's still not seen as valid. People shouldn't feel threatened due to our existence because there's space for all of us. Correct me if I'm wrong, but compared to the original post & replies before mine, I have kept my posts respectful. I didn't deny anyone's lived experience & how they choose to live or resort to snarky or even disrespectful comments & name calling that I have now received from others. Regardless of that I'm glad that I've been able to have a few constructive exchanges with people, those are very enlightening

edit: Also thank you for the link!

Ah, now I understand what "living as a woman" means - tone and language policing to be properly ladylike and only address appropriate issues using suitably demure words.

Not gonna lie, the first abbreviation I could think of was Medical Aid for Palestinians so then I looked it up & the first result linked to the UK mental wellbeing service so I assumed that had to be it. Would you mind elaborating what that stands for in this case? Seems like there are a lot of MAPs so my bad