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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Hilary Cass was actively impeded from doing a follow-up study of Tavistock children by adult gender clinics who wouldn’t co-operate.

100 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 10/04/2024 13:38

Important point from novelist Simon Edge

https://twitter.com/simonjedge/status/1778000213149377015

"Hilary Cass was actively impeded from doing a follow-up study of Tavistock children by adult gender clinics who wouldn’t co-operate. She believes this stunning refusal was co-ordinated and ideologically driven. All credit to
Amelia Gentleman in the Guardian for this revelation"

Full quote in image on twitter

https://twitter.com/simonjedge/status/1777983256224210993/photo/1

https://twitter.com/simonjedge/status/1777983256224210993/photo/1

OP posts:
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13
RainWithSunnySpells · 13/04/2024 10:02

Archive of the Times article.
https://ghostarchive.org/archive/mlNnu

nothingcomestonothing · 13/04/2024 10:14

She added: “They claim that the identities of young, butch lesbians are being erased and that instead of being allowed to feel confident in their sexual orientation and as themselves, they are being pushed into believing they are trans men.

“But the hard facts simply aren’t there to back any of this up. Talking to a specialist is not the same as transitioning. Very few young people who access support go on to transition. This is what we would expect: that’s what much successful gender treatment looks like.”

Today Hunt says that, as a lesbian herself, “I’ve always been deeply concerned about the internalised homophobia that is going on for young women that means they think they can’t be a dyke, and they’ve got to be a boy.”

She said: “I had this kind of fantasy that little baby lesbians could go [to a clinic] and say, ‘I want to wear a suit so I want to be a boy’ [and be told], ‘no, you’re a lesbian who wears a suit’.”

Fucking liar. We've always been at war with Eastasia.

Rubidium · 13/04/2024 11:00

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 13/04/2024 08:33

I would also like to know! To be honest that doesn't sound very likely.

When "Time to Think" came out I do remember a newspaper article saying that up to 1000 people might sue the Tavistock but I've not seen any evidence that this is happening. It could just have been a bit of newspaper hype?

From August 2022:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/tavistock-gender-clinic-lawyers-latest-b2143006.html

See also, from last year:
https://pogustgoodhead.com/nhs-publishes-gender-guidance/

I expect lawyers at Pogust Goodhead are reading the final Cass Report very carefully indeed.

Tavistock gender clinic facing legal action over ‘failure of care’ claims

Clinic accused of rushing children ‘into taking life altering puberty blockers without adequate consideration or proper diagnosis’

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/tavistock-gender-clinic-lawyers-latest-b2143006.html

Appalonia · 13/04/2024 11:42

Helen Joyce is, rightly, very angry about that Ruth Hunt article
https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1779088748489187625?s=19

https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1779088748489187625?s=19

RainWithSunnySpells · 13/04/2024 11:45

Archive of the Times article.
https://ghostarchive.org/archive/yqSWV

unwashedanddazed · 13/04/2024 17:07

https://twitter.com/simonjedge/status/1779108315479392625

Simon Edge has started a petition to strip Ruth Hunt of her peerage. Nearly 1800 signatures in just a couple of hours.

https://twitter.com/simonjedge/status/1779108315479392625

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 13/04/2024 17:28

Appalonia · 13/04/2024 11:42

Helen Joyce is, rightly, very angry about that Ruth Hunt article
https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1779088748489187625?s=19

Good. I'm fucking angry too. There are receipts, she can't be allowed to get out of this. She needs to answer to the children and families harmed. Preferably in court.

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 13/04/2024 17:40

From the Times article:

"The clinics are also said to have complained that the “unintended outcome of the study is likely to be a high-profile national report that will be misinterpreted, misrepresented or actively used to harm patients”.

In backwards tra speak that means they know it's going to show harm. So they're actively suppressing the evidence base need to establish best practice healthcare. That should be - if not already - criminal. Glad they've seen sense but can we trust the same individuals who refused the first time not to tamper with the data?

RethinkingLife · 13/04/2024 18:40

"The clinics are also said to have complained that the “unintended outcome of the study is likely to be a high-profile national report that will be misinterpreted, misrepresented or actively used to harm patients”.

Then the clinics are surmising what the results are from their own suspicions or they've run their own interim analyses. I suspect the former.

DameMaud · 13/04/2024 18:45

RethinkingLife · 13/04/2024 18:40

"The clinics are also said to have complained that the “unintended outcome of the study is likely to be a high-profile national report that will be misinterpreted, misrepresented or actively used to harm patients”.

Then the clinics are surmising what the results are from their own suspicions or they've run their own interim analyses. I suspect the former.

Indeed. So much is said in this.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 14/04/2024 11:38

@DameMaud & @RethinkingLife absolutely

we refuse to share this data on the grounds that it makes us look terrible is a very human impulse but entirely the wrong attitude from anyone working in healthcare.

StealthSpinach · 14/04/2024 11:40

How likely is it that the real data is surrendered, after such blatant previous refusal to comply?

SinnerBoy · 14/04/2024 12:16

WomanInGrey · Yesterday 09:04

+ + What is 'mandatory direction'? + +

Usually it’s a direct order from the Secretary of State, to a public service. Unusual, but not unprecedented. Directions, in my experience (not NHS), are used when the Secretary of State is exercising wide, discretionary powers and there is no specific legalisation that can be used instead.

Thank you for your explanation.

SaffronSpice · 14/04/2024 15:23

StealthSpinach · 14/04/2024 11:40

How likely is it that the real data is surrendered, after such blatant previous refusal to comply?

They would have to falsify their patient records to do that.

I predict it is more likely to show abysmal record keeping rather than outright fraud,

WomanInGrey · 14/04/2024 15:38

In my experience of using Directions, a surprising amount of information is lost and can’t be found.

Getting any sort of answer in this situation requires forensic analysis which takes expensive expertise, time and good leadership to set up and a team which can find, piece together, unpick, and tell the story of the data that is left.

RethinkingLife · 16/04/2024 17:56

Jo Bartosch captures the struggle ahead for completing the Cass Review (I regard the extended York review (for lack of access to data) as a delayed part of Cass).

And Cass has every reason to be concerned. Her detractors are not confined to the activists who are even now planning a demonstration against the implementation of her recommendations — the entire NHS is in effect enemy territory.

Today there is a legion of activists within the NHS; some organise internally within workplaces, whereas others like GLAAD are networked across the UK.
GLAAD describes itself as having “a national voice in LGBTQ+ health activism and education” and boasts of “working with leading figures such as the General Medical Council, British Medical Association, Royal Colleges and Parliament”.…Members of GLAAD have taken an active role in lobbying for the use of puberty blockers. Duncan McGregor, co-chair of GLADD wrote behalf of the organisation in 2021 to protest a high court ruling which found patients under sixteen were unable to consent to puberty blockers.

… the report has also revealed how deeply entrenched trans ideology is within the NHS. When the University of York requested, on Cass’s behalf, data on the outcomes of 9,000 patients seen at gender clinics, all but one refused.

The report documents the reasons given by the clinics which refused to share their data. These include apparent fears from the clinics that the “study may not be fully independent” which included the claim that the study “may suffer from interference by NHS England, the Cass review team and government ministers” whose interests “do not align” with theirs and those of the patients.
The clinics are also said to have complained that the “unintended outcome of the study is likely to be a high-profile national report that will be misinterpreted, misrepresented or actively used to harm patients”.
This is unsurprising. A quick glance at how these organisations describe themselves makes it clear they are staffed by activists with links to radical transgender organisations.
The Nottingham Centre for Transgender Health Network, where staff initially refused to share data with Cass, introduces Medical Doctor and Transgender Health Specialist Jon Arcelus (pronouns: he/him/his) with the dubious honour that he co-chaired of the Standards of Care version 8 (SOC-8) developed by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH). These are the guidelines which included “eunuch” as a gender identity that even children may have. Arcelus’ biography on the site continues:
He works closely with trans organisations, including Mermaids, Gender Intelligence and Translearning partnership. He is also an Associate Editor of the International Journal of Transgender Health.
Similarly, the Indigo Centre, an adult gender service for Greater Manchester, is run in partnership with the LGBT Foundation and describes itself as staffed by a “team of trans, non-binary and LGBQ practitioners and allies”. This is in effect, the gift of taxpayer money to trans activists within the NHS who in turn, create more trans activists.

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-cass-review-is-not-the-end/

Years ago, I saw a piece in which a journalist described the Arts Council and similar as job creation schemes for the middle-class/chattering-classes. I've often thought that about the Stonewall youth ambassador training scheme and the NHS when it churns about particular classes of activists that tend to cluster round the same social status.

The Cass Review is not the end | Josephine Bartosch | The Critic Magazine

The Cass Review reads like a soldier’s letter from the front — as if its author is trying to smuggle facts across enemy lines and through a censor. That this most eminent paediatrician…

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-cass-review-is-not-the-end

Delphinium20 · 17/04/2024 00:55

Years ago, I saw a piece in which a journalist described the Arts Council and similar as job creation schemes for the middle-class/chattering-classes. I've often thought that about the Stonewall youth ambassador training scheme and the NHS when it churns about particular classes of activists that tend to cluster round the same social status.

The book, Bullshit Jobs talks about roles that, if they disappeared, wouldn't be missed by world at all. I suspect this is true here as well.

UtopiaPlanitia · 17/04/2024 01:09

Delphinium20 · 17/04/2024 00:55

Years ago, I saw a piece in which a journalist described the Arts Council and similar as job creation schemes for the middle-class/chattering-classes. I've often thought that about the Stonewall youth ambassador training scheme and the NHS when it churns about particular classes of activists that tend to cluster round the same social status.

The book, Bullshit Jobs talks about roles that, if they disappeared, wouldn't be missed by world at all. I suspect this is true here as well.

It’s Hitchhiker’s Golgafrinchan Ark B 😬

https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Golgafrinchan_Ark_Fleet_Ship_B

'The Golgafrinchan Ark Fleet Ship B was a way of removing the basically useless citizens from the planet Golgafrincham. A variety of stories were formed about the doom of the planet, such as blowing up, crashing into the sun or being eaten by a mutant star goat. The ship was filled with all the middlemen of Golgafrincham, such as the telephone sanitisers, account executives, hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, and management consultants.'

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 17/04/2024 12:09

If there was a B Ark for academics then unsupported, invalid and irrelevant criticism of Dr Cass' report would be a reliable qualification for a ticket. What's the use of academics who judge the quality of research by whether they feel threatened by the conclusions?

The academic Queer Theorists, Critical Theorists and DEI activists could be flown to a place where they feel safe and the rest of us could stay behind to look after children according to the evidence of what works.

And they can stay there until they can explain what the Queer Theory equivalent is of the threat to humanity posed by unsanitized telephones.

UtopiaPlanitia · 17/04/2024 13:15

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 17/04/2024 12:09

If there was a B Ark for academics then unsupported, invalid and irrelevant criticism of Dr Cass' report would be a reliable qualification for a ticket. What's the use of academics who judge the quality of research by whether they feel threatened by the conclusions?

The academic Queer Theorists, Critical Theorists and DEI activists could be flown to a place where they feel safe and the rest of us could stay behind to look after children according to the evidence of what works.

And they can stay there until they can explain what the Queer Theory equivalent is of the threat to humanity posed by unsanitized telephones.

😂👏

QueenofTheBorg · 17/04/2024 13:19

The NHS is a public institution, paid for by public money, our money, how on earth can they be allowed to just not cooperate? It beggars belief.

RethinkingLife · 17/04/2024 13:22

QueenofTheBorg · 17/04/2024 13:19

The NHS is a public institution, paid for by public money, our money, how on earth can they be allowed to just not cooperate? It beggars belief.

Centres were set up with poor governance. No established KPIs nor feedback mechanisms.

Leaders of those centres were in a (less than) virtuous circle of comprising a substantial proportion of the specialist commissioning groups.

It always comes down to failures of governance. They need to revise the governance.

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