If young men want ‘traditional’ gender roles, we need to know why - Kathleen Stock

[IwantToRetire]

Gen Z women and men are growing further apart in their political outlook and aspirations. It is vital the root causes are understood so we can all find common ground

Afew months ago, alongside other proud parents, I sat watching my teenager’s GCSE drama class showcase: a dozen short plays, devised and performed with gusto by small groups of pupils. In terms of theme, there was a definite attraction to the darker side of life; indeed, in nearly every play there was a hair-raising death. Another repetitive strand — at least, in pieces written partly or wholly by the girls — was the shoddiness of men’s behaviour.

One character struggled to find the kettle after his wife had died, having never used it before; another was violent to his family; and what viewer could forget the fiendish theatre manager, forcing dancers to take stimulants so that they could work longer hours? Worst of all, though, was the policeman who was also a serial killer, dramatically strangling his detective wife on stage after she discovered he was the culprit. There were also quite a few impassioned speeches about the prevalence of patriarchy and misogyny in society.

At the final curtain, I looked around at the mild-mannered, supportive fathers in the audience, many of whom had cut work short to be there. What could these men have done to their children, I wondered. Or, more seriously: was it possible to give young women today some awareness of male violence without causing them to write all men off?

Full article at https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/if-young-men-want-a-return-to-traditional-gender-roles-we-need-to-know-why-g3pnmfj56

I disagree with nearly everything she said, but agree this is something that more people need to be talking about.

Or I suspect, as it has always been, women will have to adjust their lives to accommodate intransigent men and boys.

Can be read at https://archive.ph/gGXMV

I never thought it strange that I should do domestic chores. My father (born in the 1930s) used to do housework as a matter of course without advertising it or seeking praise. He regarded it as an entirely practical matter - this needs doing so best to get it done. His father was very traditional so perhaps growing up with two sisters influenced him - he shared a house with one of them in adulthood.

The example rubbed off on me - I regarded housework as something I should just do as a matter of course - clean up the mess I'm half responsible for. Well, 100% responsible these days.

On kids and dark themes - I was pretty ghoulish as a youth but the dark thoughts were more related to the great fear of the time, nuclear war.

according to statistics you are way less likely to get killed if you don't have a husband though

What baffles me is the amount of men who seemed to not care at all for their partners. They just don't care that the woman they claim they love is run ragged, working hard and struggling. Has barely any leisure time, has so much responsibility yet they have no compassion and don't even think to lift a finger.
They don't see that if they support each other, life could be much better for both of them.

Realistically I don't think teen boys today or even men in their 20s have been brought up to expect that.

On a side note, I think this is also what we're seeing with some of the WASPI women. I'm on the fence about whether they should receive compensation after years of privilege and no doubt retiring earlier than I ever will.

This topic is not really about race relations, but I'm not sure what "always defer to a black child when talking about their experience" means; if it's about racism the black child has experienced from a white person, it would be reasonable to give credence to their account and turn it into a learning opportunity unless there is a reason to do otherwise.

To (very slightly) expand on the privilege part:

The notion that white people may have certain privilege in the West even when they are not wealthy or healthy becomes clearer when one understands that this privilege may not be so immediately conspicuous in the first place; the higher likelihood of the general society giving white people benefit of doubt, less pressure to avoid being a negative example of one's racial/ethnic group, etc...it's often subtle in social interactions and may be easier to notice when dealing with the legal system.

If I write more I'm afraid I might veer off-topic, so I'll stop here.

My main point being that the the politics of oppressor versus the oppressed, in which the victim turns the tables to become the privileged - which is how Intersectionalism has evolved, has become an unhelpful and monolithic effigy - and whether it is appled to race or to sex or to any other category is not helpful and simply breeds resentment. I can fully understand how men might find the continual 'privilging' of women, and dissing of men, quite galling.

I get pleasure and satisfaction from housework/wifework.......certainly when that is my main occupation. If you like your life to run smoothly and enjoy creating a home, your environment being comfortable as possible, then mending and furnishing your nest comes quite naturally. Obviously most people, men or women, would prefer someone else do the household tasks when they've been out at work all day.

I guess it also depends on your standards. I know that I have a tendency to think that I do the things that I tend to do way better than the way my husband does them - so I end up doing whatever it is myself. He has roles and tasks that i have nothing to do with and quite frankly am happy to let him do them.