I have no words...

[OldTinHat]

...I've seen it all now!

I wonder if I'll receive a letter offering me a prostate exam??

OP I find it concerning when ideology makes its way into medical treatment (e.g. countries restricting abortion or contraception access for religious reasons rather than medical reasons or refusing to research and treat HIV because of homophobia) so I can understand why you would find this nonsensical.

Receiving letters like this also leaves me wondering what else the NHS does to appease ideologies which reduces my confidence in a medical system that can so easily be persuaded to lie about fundamental aspects of mammalian life on earth.

I agree with Paperwalkandtalk who are all the people with a cervix if not women. The world is gone mad now, same with chest feeding instead of breast feeding.

I just checked on the hse guidlines Ireland and it says 'young people with a cervix' or 'people with a cervix'...Woman not even mentioned at all. Are we living in an alternative reality or what.

Yeah this. The only people who need a smear, are women. As soon as you term it 'women and people with a cervix' you have changed 'woman' from a descriptor of an adult human female, to one of a person who self describes at a woman (as you've also listed people with a cervix who don't self describe as a woman).

I know a lot of women are ok with additive language like this, as at least it now says women, instead of cervix havers or birthing bodies or any of that offensive crap. But that's such a low bar. I do not have 'woman' as an identity, I have it as a biological fact about me, and I didn't consent for that to be changed on literature from the National Health Service about a medical test only adult human females need. Not being totally erased isn't good enough, I want reality based language back in healthcare.

'biological women' would suffice.

The word ‘woman’ includes everyone who might need a smear test.
People are free to believe what they like, but the NHS should not be using language that legitimises their harmful nonsense.

It’s still pandering. This is a medical issue - based on bodies. Human bodies.

I think this is a logical solution if you are a writer of such a leaflet, and you know that the leaflet will be read by gender critical people and gender ideologists, and your above-all-else concern is that everyone who needs a smear test should be addressed and told to get one. Two different interpretations:

GC: women and people with a cervix: only "women" is necessary, and is sufficient; "people with a cervix" is redundant (and perhaps offensive, because women aren't body parts, and we don't need reminding that if our cervix has been removed e.g. as part of major surgery, we no longer need to have it smeared)

GI: only "people with a cervix" is necessary, and is sufficient; "women" is redundant (and perhaps offensive, because there are some "women" in their terminology who have to remember they don't need a smear test, and may encounter embarrassment if they fail on this)

By contrast, if they went for "women" only, some GIs who need smears would feel excluded and out of peevitude might not attend (you might feel, and I might agree, that that's their lookout, but the NHS would still pay to treat their advanced cervical cancer); if they went for "people with a cervix" only, some GCs would feel peeved, probably not enough to not attend on the biased assumption that we're reasonable people who know where our interests lie, but more seriously, some people who aren't sure what a cervix is would be excluded.

I don't envy whoever worded this leaflet their job, but I think they did ok.

@terffert

peevitude

brilliant!

Women first and people with seems the least bad option clunky as it is.

It should just be women. Transmen should be educated enough to know if they have a cervix. In fact all women and men should but, having taught biology and sex education, the misinformation in quite incredible.

If a transwoman reckons they have a cervix they are misinformed or lying.

Facts are facts. Playing with words isn’t particularly helpful or mature.

I had to fill out an Alliance Health form last week for my child which had compulsory questions for all patients aged 12-55 including what form of contraception the patient was using and if they had a medical condition that meant they were unable to get pregnant. Being male counts, right? He thought it was hilarious being asked the date of his last menstrual period. There was a sex assigned at birth section but saying male didn't mean you could skip the pregnancy section.

I wonder how you find out whether you have a cervix or not?

This is fine IMO.

I'm with you OP it's stupid pandering to a minuscule number of the population, who know that they are women really when it comes down to it. And it's very confusing messaging, if I am male how do I know if I have a cervix? But at least it says women so it's a start!

I suggest this wording: "women (which includes, obviously, every person who has a cervix)".

I genuinely don't understand at what point girls are going to find out they even have a cervix when schools are teaching them they can change sex.

How does one find out this fact in the first place?

I’m not sure I knew I had a cervix until I went for a cervical smear, which I was invited to go for as I was a woman🤷‍♀️

It should just be women. Men in frocks don't have a cervix.

No, for all the reasons outlined - that's still genuflecting to gender identity. The most elegant solution would simply annotate the word "women": asterisk, then in footnotes: the word "woman" is used here to refer to the biological sex and therefore includes people who might not define their gender identity as women." The BBC has long done something similar on migration articles back when UNHCR declared the word "migrant" non grata.

Sorry, I have to ask - digital as in computer based, or simply with a finger?

The initial check for prostate problems is a digital rectal exam. The doctor inserts a gloved finger into the rectum, and palpates the prostate for lumps and unusual features.

I presume it's his finger that he uses.

FWIW I totally agree with your first sentence but please don’t patronise other women by implying that they’re chippy and should pipe down. Some of us are very sensitive to this ideology capture in the NHS - it is likely to have real world consequences and is important. So telling people to stfu about it is not cool.

One of the reasons the ideology has managed to get such a grip on society in such a short time is that many people believe there must be some real medicine and science underpinning it. There isn't: it is all utter, utter bollocks.

Children and young people are going to be more likely to end up as believing they need harmful 'treatment' to 'affirm' their 'gender identities' if they are getting ambiguous messages about the validity of these beliefs from the adults in schools and the rest of society. ALL state institutions, but particularly health services, need all their messaging to be clearly consistent with the truth that human sex is binary and immutable.

Yes, women who identify as 'transmen' still need smear tests. Those who are taking testosterone will be in close contact with the health services for the rest of their lives to deal with the ongoing damage to their bodies, so it should not be difficult to target messages directly to them. (Though most of them will require hysterectomies soon after starting testosterone anyway, so the question of cervical cancer screening is moot).