Kara Dansky Interview - 3 April 2024

[UtopiaPlanitia]

How does Peter Boghossian still not understand women’s rights or anything other than Liberal Feminism?! He’s had lots of different women on his podcast in the last year and he really does not seem to have taken on board much of anything they say. Women’s arguments on lots of issues just seem to bounce off the front of his head. His views are fixed and that’s that for him.

I applaud these women for putting up with his faux naivety in interviews too.

Frankly, I’m rapidly coming to think that Boghossian is just a more polite version of James Lindsay.

To give brilliant women like Kara the platform to knock it down? (Which they always do.)

Do you think TRAs are against you because you’re so attractive?'

Oh lord. I don't think I can bring myself to watch that. That's so cringe!
(Although I can imagine Sall handling it well).

Luckily, there are lots of great Sall Grover interviews (esp The Queens Speech one, for me).

Yep Utopia, agree re his apparent lack of grasp on the basics. Unless he is just to avoid falling out with his buddies...

I genuinely felt like this was either done for a bet or as a means to get hired by the Daily Wire or something.

I don't know Warrior.
He framed it very much as a personal question- what HE personally couldn't understand about KARA personally, I think?

I’ve had more time to think about this interview. Even setting aside my point about earlier about what age you arm girl children so they can also gun down rapists in the loos, it was a very male perspective. Do we still go in hard with our jiujitsu moves at 6 months pregnant, or is that when we should whip out our handguns? What does he suggest for the young mum with a baby balanced on one hip and a toddler holding her other hand? Do we give the toddler the gun or the pepper spray? The man’s a prize turnip!

Also, I can’t take credit for Schrodinger’s rapist. Someone on FWR posted a link to an excellent blog about it a few years ago. I checked but blog is now private, or I would have reposted.

I would have hoped this but the fact he didn't do this to Helen Joyce is what is puzzling in that case.

At first i thought it was him questioning the level of risk - if we really thought it was high, we would arm ourselves somehow. But because we dont, we know the risk it low.

But i think its him misunderstanding the realities- its more likely to be voyeurism or flashing, than rape. And i dont think jujitsu could stop those, because its happened before we have time to decide what move to make. Also, in public toilets and changing rooms, women are pushed into a confined space and dont have the chance to get a gun out.

Id love to know the assault rates in areas where women are armed, though? I dont think non sexual assult is lower in the states with gun than here is it?

That’s a good question and I really don’t know.

I’m beginning to think that he’s just a man who doesn’t see sexism unless it’s really egregious and possibly even then doesn’t 'grok' sexism and the constant effect it can have on women. I think perhaps he’s low on empathy or the ability to place himself in other’s shoes - he says a lot of things that are quite Libertarian-sounding even though he claims not to be Libertarian. In my view, Libertarian men are often lacking in empathy and the ability to recognise problems that affect other people but don’t affect them.

Betty, you make some excellent points there 👏

I've not watched yet but I'm really surprised to hear this. I'm not especially a fan of Boghossian but I did think he was smarter than that. I'm still hoping @AReasonablePerson is correct about him steel manning but I've read Kara Dansky's Twitter feed about it and it doesn't sound like she thinks so.

As for martial arts - many years ago I used to do self defence training for women and it was all about learning techniques that could buy you a few extra seconds to scream the house down and run like hell. It was a fun way of keeping fit, which meant I could run faster and further if I ever needed to, but in no way did it enable you to fight men, in fact it was impressed on you not to try.

So happy to read the responses to his latest episode. I was very much WTAFing as I listened to that last question.

Agree he was stress-testing /steel manning up to that point (if we ignore the bizarre cargo pants comment) but that last question is nuts. He does know Buffy the Vampire Slayer isn't a documentary right?

I had a quick read of the comments on YouTube and they also took issue with his comments on women being expected to go through training to defend themselves. That surprised me because YouTube skews quite anti-feminist at times.

Thinking about Boghossian more, and his history over the last number of years, I’m wondering if he’s less the Rational Man and more a contrarian? Pluckrose and Lindsay, who he worked with on a number of projects, are by turns sexist and contrary on the issues of feminism and gender identity ideology and perhaps PB is more in keeping with their views.

I still find it amazing, from watching his podcasts and his appearances on other podcasts, that he doesn’t appear to have learned anything from Helen Joyce and Kelli-Jay Keen but does often quote Andrew Doyle and D Hayton. I wonder what the difference between those two particular groups of people is 🤔

Yeah, the last bit of that interview really gave me the irrits. So many “but what abouts” and “but we live in real life” went through my mind.

It was infuriating in a 'how on earth do you not get this! ' sort of a way.

I'm a 7.5 stone woman. I have no hope in hell of building up enough muscle to overpower a male attacker. Men's grip strength alone means any one of them could easily strangle me if they wanted to as it would be impossible for me to pull their hands off my neck.

To even get to a point where I had a chance of resistance against a very small man, would take me years of rigorous daily strength and weight training along with the martial arts - I have a more-than-full-time job, I have small children; I don't have the luxury of getting hours a day (or even a week) to indulge my hobbies. And it's almost-pointless anyway because the chances of my attacker being a small weak man (as opposed to a normal-sized man) are very low.

Women have enough on their plate.

Given he's so good at the street epistemology, is there any way he was being the devils advocate and asking all the shite questions some men think about ?

I don't think you even need to go for "devils advocate" - it's just "interview".

A lot of these sorts of podcasts aren't really "interviews" in the same sense as you'd have with a combative journalist, or a prospective employer. They're more "tell us about yourself" friendly chats. His are far closer to a proper interview.

He's trying to get that person's answers to common questions. Guests have positions, and he's making them justify their positions.

Now, that doesn't rule out many of the previous criticisms - it's hard to say what his actual views are, so maybe some are valid. But I don't think his views are that important, compared to the value of the interview technique.

I stopped watching him after seeing one of his interviews. I think it was KJK. My thoughts echoed the OPs. Condescending and doesn't let the interviewee finish a sentence or complete a thought.

I've not watched it but interesting that others think his interview with Helen Joyce was fairer. Perhaps he thinks Helen to be a better calibre of woman due to her STEM background and not wasting her time with silly pursuits like dance.

Was it that one where he said that prostitutes provide a valuable service to men?

Not sure. I couldn't even make it through watching the whole interview he was so annoying.

Oh gawd, I forgot about that statement in that interview - I’m sure he’s stated that more than once. His views on porn are similar. There are some things that he does not get despite women spelling it all out to him in detail and at this point I’m beginning to think it’s wilful on his part.

He seems to be just a basic sexist bloke at times and his highfalutin talk of rationality isn’t buttering as many parsnips with me as it once did. Some men lack empathy with women and Boghossian appears to be one of them. He also appears to lack empathy in general because he often approaches issues such as drug rehab from the aspect of disliking that taxes pay for anybody else’s medical procedures.

The more I’ve watched him over the last year or so the more I’ve become disappointed that he doesn’t value women’s opinions to the extent that he values those of men.

Andrew Gold of the Heretics podcast is another interviewer who causes a similar reaction in me for similar reasons to Boghossian.

Jo Bartosch has something to say about the Boghossian-Dansky interview:

https://thecritic.co.uk/realism-is-not-the-same-as-self-pity/

Boghossian had displayed a typically smug knobjective world view

I bet shes be waiting for just the right moment to use 'knobjective'

I'm glad Jo wrote this. I second her anger and disappointment and PB's inability to engage with - or be curious about - the specific physical limitations, and therefore vulnerabilities, by which women navigate the world.

I don't buy, for a single second, his female martial arts expert mate, could wipe the floor with every men. That's just Marvel Comics level thinking

I'm thinking maybe Peter imagines a scenario where a man who is taller, bigger, stronger than him decides on a sexual assault. Not only can he not fight it off, but in some imaginary world is left pregnant. He has to make a decision, to report an assault and go through that particular humiliation. He has to deal with the result of the attack in his body, and take action one way or another which will likely stay with him a long long time. He may also have to confront those who feel he should in any case carry his attackers child to term. Perhaps he might be able to imagine how he would feel then. I feel there is a shutting down of empathy due to being unable to imagine what life is in reality for women. It is very lacking in imagination.

Move over Boghossian, this Aussie dude wants in on the posing pointless sexist questions to women game. He, like Boghossian, mentions how pretty Sall is and, also like Boghossian, can’t understand why Sall completely refuses to call men women if the men make an effort to wear womanface 🤷‍♀️🙄

https://omny.fm/shows/uncomfortable-conversations-with-josh-szeps/trans-rights-vs-womens-rights-with-the-feminist-be

I like Peter's Boghossian's street epistemology but increasingly I wonder if in his interviews, he's deliberately shit-stirring to get more likes/views kind of thing. Or is it that he wants to voice all sides of these issues/play devil's advocate?
Don't know. But I have heard him talk about his martial arts training separately and how although he's experienced and in good shape for his age, he will simply not be able to out-compete a much younger or physically stronger opponent by technique alone. Surely that contradicts this half-baked notion that if only a woman had expert training she would suddenly have nothing to fear from any male would-be attacker?
I don't find his manner as annoying as some others on here but I'm not sure I can really believe that he's still in the learning/peaking phase on this particular set of issues either - not now that he's interviewed some of the most brilliant speakers in the debate - the penny should have dropped long ago. Is it just that most men simply don't/can't get it? I think Mr Menno is the only one who does - now there's a real (gentle)man.