Delay Smartphones Campaign

[JeannieDark]

I know this isn't specifically FWR related but given the impact that access to online chat has had on the growth of the diagnosis of gender dysphoria I wondered if any other posters would be interested in signing this pledge to delay access to smart phones until kids are (at least) 14.

The result doesn't display your name, just your school and the year group if you choose to share it (you don't have to share your year group).

The more people who do it the easier it will be to resist the pressure to do it.

And to be clear I do understand that for some families smart phones might be necessary; I'm not sharing this to say no-one should give their kid a smartphone, I'm sure there will be sensible reasons why some people might genuinely need to. But if you're in a position where you are able to delay it and would like to sign the pledge you can get more info and sign at the link below.

delaysmartphones.org.uk/sign-the-pledge/

That is hard. We have tablet/ iPad and I find it hard keeping on top of that but they can listen to audio books and music which I put through a speaker in their rooms (7"usually of log my phone.)

Mumsnet gave us a trial of an Amazon echo dot (? The one for kids) and it's been 99% used for music. Had a free sub for Amazon kids but tbh I didn't want yet more things on the iPad. We couldn't get on top of asking for games and things via the speaker. But for music for my 11 year old it's great. (Better when it linked to Apple Music, it suddenly stopped linking about 6 months ago)

What about more affordable options like a Samsung a14? Do they have those settings?

My poor elderly parents are finding life more and more difficult because they just can't cope with smartphones, apps or having to do everything online.

You even book our Gp online now. Tbf it means they're triaging much more effectively and I think you can still ring if really needed. But it's yet more stuff online

@Kalevala I’ve read that Familylink on Android has similar options, but I’ve not done it myself. We both have iPhones, so the DC have secondhand iPhones as I figured it would make things easier if we were all on the same system.

Sounds like a useful option. DS is almost an adult and was never interested in social media aside from messaging friends. It would be good to be able to have a smartphone as a tool. DS used maps, transport apps and so on from 11 or 12.

There’s also this https://parentshield.co.uk/

I signed. Holding out for a non-smart or locked-down smartphone option appearing in the next 3-6 years when I’ll start to be badgered. I wish Apple would relaunch an iPod - I so miss just having music as an option without all the other apps. Same with Kindle.

I always remember xxxx XXXXX too. I don't think she would have died without instagram pushing self harming content on her relentlessly.

I've taken the child's name out, because all these cases are such awful tragedies, and my heart goes out to the bereaved families.

But who gives a 13 year old child a smartphone, and therefore unlimited access to the likes of Instagram, and then blames internet companies for not protecting their child? Surely the first line of protection for a child is her/his parents, not Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates.
Non smartphones are cheap, safe and widely available, and giving a child a smartphone is making a deliberate decision, which could have tragic consequences.

The internet companies created algorithms that relentlessly spammed Molly with self-harm content. Content that the hardened clinical psychologist said at the inquest caused sleepless nights. They're still doing it. For profit.

Parents, up until recently, had no clue what seemed like innocent apps were doing this. And it's not just via phones - I know kids who are gaming online and getting strangers contact them.

I don't actually think it's that much better if it happens to be a vulnerable adult who has to have a smartphone because they can't bank or access NHS services without apps. So they get protected to 16 and then it's a free for all?

Making your child the only one who has a non smartphone also makes them a target for bullying as they will be different, and they will still be shown content on their friends phones. There is not an easy solution for individual families.

Molly's case was so tragic as outwardly there was no sign there was anything wrong. And Ian Russell has campaigned about this and I am sure would be happy with concerned parents discussing what happened to Molly.

I feel it's a bit like saying 'oh yes, it's fine if the shops sell alcohol to your child, we shouldn't expect them to regulate, parents just need to make sure children don't go in those shops / aren't given the money to buy alcohol'. It needs to be both, education and empowerment of parents and also regulation and laws to control internet companies who don't give a tiny shit about the wellbeing of kids and are out for profit no matter the human cost.

A child without a smartphone, or other unsupervised online access, can't be reached by relentless spamming. I don't buy 'parents had no idea' - the advice NOT to give smartphones to under 16s has been around for years, the downsides of social media for children - including fatalities - have been known for years... seriously, it only took a minute or two of googling to find articles going back to the mid 2010s raising concerns.
Maybe children with non-smartphones will get bullied, maybe not, is that a reason not to protect them from online harm [which often includes 24/7 bullying]? More and more schools are becoming no-phone-zones anyway, so there'll be fewer 'my phone is flashier than your phone' opportunities.

But there will just be parents who don't restrict their kids phone access for whatever reason. Should we just not bother with those kids? And if it should just be left to parents to sort, why ban in schools (which I'm very much in favour of)?

It needs to be both societal rules - like all schools ban phones and laws to restrict internet companies (and we're heading that way thankfully) as well as parents getting better information so they can make better choices. I will say many of the links upthread I've never seen before - but I've got a lot of hard sell from phone companies about the best phones to buy for 'all the family'. It's not a level playing field. Parents often are clueless and don't have the information they need to safeguard their kids.

I asked about this very thing in Local Authority led safeguarding training and they had no advice - nothing to say about it. But once I'd asked there were then a lot of stories in the room about primary aged children who'd brought a phone into school and shown the other kids inappropriate content on tiktok.

I'm in my 40s and don't have a smartphone, but have an active social life. You can kick back against the relentless assumption that you have to use an app for everything, but it does take a bit more effort. For example, for gigs where the tickets are sent by app, I just go to the box office with the booking reference and the card used for payment and gain entry that way.

The internet is a tool; it should not be ruling our lives. I think it's important for teenagers to see normal, happy adults who can leave the house without a phone and enjoy themselves away from a screen.

Can’t get behind this campaign - children should have heavily restricted access to the internet - to sites, social media etc. but isn’t that as accessible through tablets, computers etc? I love my smartphone but before I had it there was all sorts of shite I would see on the family PC.

genuinely don’t understand it, and I’d like to. My son is 11 and doesn’t even have a SIM card in his phone yet - he uses it for camera, audiobook, gaming.

i love my smart phone and although it’s a time sink - I appreciate the difficulties come from the algorithm drawing you in, and other people being awful.

typed on my mobile

This is highly highly recommended viewing for anyone with young kids

I have an iphone and want this for myself but there are too many loopholes. If maps is installed you can access the browser and therefore social media. I found this out in a couple of days, so I’m assuming a teenager would. I think many apps give a backdoor into a browser through help pages etc.

How do you set the time limits so that they are actually hard limits, not just recommendations? Are you sure you have? On my iphone I can just click through and use anything even after it says time up. If it is really possible then I would like to know how, but it may be that the phone is not as locked down as you think.

I don't know about Apple but with Android the phone will lock when the time is up, all that can be done is emergency calls.

@Dryt We combine the Apple controls (which are different for under 18s than for adults) with net nanny software, and so far it seems to work. We do check every so often.

Have you tried putting tiktok or mumsnet into maps, and clicking on ‘website’? I’m pretty sure the apple controls are workaroundable even with the under 18 option (a google says there’s a difference between under 18 and under 13 in terms of strictness, and also that ‘1 more minute’ can be repeatedly pressed?). But maybe net nanny deals with the content issues and that makes the other things less of a concern. I have used apple for years but am wondering about switching as i’ve found it so hard to lock my own phone down. Only recently pregnant so am hoping culture and technology will be better for this by the time I have to worry about it for a child!

How will they do their Bedrock English/Sparx maths / Tassomai science/ research an artist/ log on to Bandlab / submit their homework / check time of after school clubs / book a swimming session / catch the bus?
At the school I work at phones are off and in pockets. Except in pretty much every single lesson.