Delay Smartphones Campaign

[JeannieDark]

I know this isn't specifically FWR related but given the impact that access to online chat has had on the growth of the diagnosis of gender dysphoria I wondered if any other posters would be interested in signing this pledge to delay access to smart phones until kids are (at least) 14.

The result doesn't display your name, just your school and the year group if you choose to share it (you don't have to share your year group).

The more people who do it the easier it will be to resist the pressure to do it.

And to be clear I do understand that for some families smart phones might be necessary; I'm not sharing this to say no-one should give their kid a smartphone, I'm sure there will be sensible reasons why some people might genuinely need to. But if you're in a position where you are able to delay it and would like to sign the pledge you can get more info and sign at the link below.

delaysmartphones.org.uk/sign-the-pledge/

Thanks, OP. Definitely worth thinking about.

This is a good idea. The more parents within peer groups do this, the better it will work.

There may be alternatives for safety anyway.

This is a great idea. Is it linked in any way to what Esther Ghey (Brianna Ghey's mum) is doing?

Although I'm on a different page to her (I assume) when it comes to the right care pathway for children who experience distress in relation to their gender identity belief, I've found her to be a very clear and valuable voice on this topic. I've been impressed at the strength she has shown and the focus she is putting on it.

I don't think it is, I haven't seen any mention of it on the webpage at least. And yes I agree I assume she and I would disagree strongly on a lot of fundamental things but she sounds like she's doing good work and being incredibly strong and I have a lot of admiration for her.

It'll sound a bit daft, but I didn't know you could actually still get mobile phones that weren't smartphones.

I think Esther Ghey's campaign is to limit the apps available on smartphones:

'We urge mobile phone companies to take responsibility for safeguarding children against such risks associated with technology use. We propose an age limit for smartphone usage and stricter controls over access to social media apps and unsupervised internet use.
The Government says the Online Safety Act protects children, but I don't think it goes far enough.
According to Ofcom, 49% of 8-11 year olds have a smartphone. This early exposure can lead them into dangerous territories online if left unchecked. Smartphone use in young people has also been shown to impact mood, increasing the risk of depression and anxiety.'

https://peaceandminduk.org/campaign/make-phone-companies-more-responsible-for-childrens-online-welfare/

@ArabellaScott Me neither! I think in the US they have phones that can be locked down centrally but we don't really have the same options here, seems to be a smartphone or a Nokia style old school phone. My kid is 8 and is already asking for one. I've said no chance but I can see it coming up more often and with more pressure around the move to high school.

I think this campaign has been around a bit longer - they've been piloting the approach with groups of parents.

It seems like a very good initiative to me - and a sensible approach to get parents together in groups to do this together. It can only work if you defuse peer pressure in some way, and create a community around it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/smartphones-children-mental-health-teenagers-depression-b2517030.html

The article above talks about a new book by Jonathan Haidt who believes the uptick in mental health problems is linked to smartphones.

I actually think we need to look at adults too though. Not just children. It's virtually impossible to live in the world now without a smartphone. I'm definitely worse off since I got one, but I have to now because I need an app for work an app to make bank payments online, an app for the NHS, an app for the school. An app for fucking everything.

I don't want my smartphone! I don't want all these apps but I can't live a normal life without them even though my smartphone definitely makes my life worse. The time I've missed reading a book or going for a walk or a run because I'm scrolling on my phone instead.

My poor elderly parents are finding life more and more difficult because they just can't cope with smartphones, apps or having to do everything online. They are really excluded in so many ways because of it (and it adds to the work me and my siblings have to do to keep them funcitioning, whilst making them feel ever more diminished and incapable).

I'm involved with this group: https://smartphonefreechildhood.co.uk/

I think the pledge comes from the same group. The idea being the more children in your child's class/year don't have smartphones, the easier it will be to resist, so a critical mass is needed.

The start of this article by Jonathan Haidt (the leading voice at the mo on the harms of smartphones and social media) made me think of gender questioning children. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2024/mar/24/the-anxious-generation-jonathan-haidt-book-extract-instagram-tiktok-smartphones-social-media-screens

I always remember Molly Russell too. I don't think she would have died without instagram pushing self harming content on her relentlessly.

But the big tech companies are doing a good job of making it impossible not to have a smartphone.

I've also just joined this and a WhatsApp group via Jonathan Haidt stuff

I've just got his book on audio

He's made a website for the book which has a bit if the data

jonathanhaidt.com/anxious-generation/

My older daughter does have a phone and she uses it for music. How even would you listen to music now as a teen if not on a phone on an app? Any ideas? She laughs at my 'old' cd player.

I very much agree with no social media for under 14s and very restricted internet usage but I just think you will still then have the same problems for young adults.

What would be nice would be for social media to be better regulated and it all to just be a bit more optional for everyone. It should not be the case that a company can refuse payment via any means other than an app.

I don't think the solution will ever be for groups of parents to try and gang up together because there will always be those who won't and it's still an issue at 14 or 16 when those still quite young people get access.

Yes, all good points.

And it's quite hard as a parent to take the moral high ground on phones if you're constantly using yours.

They will find ways around it if it's do as I say not as I do.

You are so right.

It would be good if there was a simple smartphone with social media blocked. I would want maps, general Internet browser, transport apps, and a WiFi messaging app if texts and calls aren't going through or I need to send a picture. DS needed maps and transport apps long before 14!

For me the internet access is the issue; I'd like the old iPods back with music and a basic phone.

Ds has an old Nokia and I'm now pretty determined to make it at least 14. Middle school system so could stretch to high school.

My friend has girls around 5-8 years older and she just said no to all the requests till they were older. But I think it was a bit easier to say no even 5 years ago for the tween age. Basic Nokia when they went to middle school.

It's not difficult to lock phones down. My children both have smartphones but they can't install apps without a parent approving it and the time they are unlocked is controlled by me too. I can set time limits for individual apps in addition to the phone itself. We have android so use Family Link but there must be something similar for Apple phones.

The DC complain but it's tough and they have no choice to put up with it. Eldest is in Y7 and keeps asking for WhatsApp because her friends use it but you have to be 16 so she's got to wait.

The PS5 and switch are also locked down as is my eldest's laptop. No website can be accessed without me authorising it

You can lock down an iPhone to make it exactly that. Dd(13) has very limited internet browsing (safe sites only via Qustudio, no Google), no social media (apart from WhatsApp, with the safest settings) and can only download apps we approve. She has time limits on games, time limits when everything stops working apart from emergency calls to us and podcasts, and still has the functionality she needs for public transport, maps, educational apps etc.

It’s just a question of working out how to set it all up, which is a bit of a pain but there are some helpful guides online. We google how safe apps are before deciding whether she can download them, and have a family discussion about risks and benefits.

And I think these campaigns don't really appreciate that the genie is so far out of the bottle now - we need regulation.

I was trying to think how I'd roll back DD1s phone usage. She's really sensible, I check her phone we have limits and rules and certain things are definite nos (e.g. no tiktok, ever) and she's been incredibly mature about it all. But she uses her phone for listening to music and audiobooks and I simply don't see how I could replicate that in any other way now - and she loves both (and I don't think either are unhealthy). She needs internet access for downloading music and books.

Parenting a teen is also partly about not creating situations where they will hate you unneccessarily and then push back hard and if I suddenly took her music and audiobooks away she would hate me for it. They're far less likely to go off the rails if you keep communication open and show them you care about what they want and they do have some limited and increasing control over their lives.

Then of course you have the fact DD2 has seen DD1 get all these cool things so is expecting the same.

We did choose a phone free school so they're off all day there at least (we had to appeal to get her into it and the catchment areas have changed so with DD2 unlikely she'll get in).

Even so, there are two children in her year who don't have phones. Everyone knows who they are. Those children are not at all happy at their parents!. I just don't believe most parents have the bandwidth to have this battle and that you could get the kind of critical mass going now that would make it ok to not have a phone.

There needs to be a phone that has essentials and some niceties (like music, audiobooks) but no social media - IMO. Good luck getting the tech companies on board with that.

It's not either or. Everyone in the group is very much campaigning for regulation as well. But if parents feel pressured to buy their 8 Yr old a smartphone and let them use WhatsApp because everyone else in the class is, then more regulation isn't going to change that as everyone's already merrily breaking the rules.