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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Fi and Jane

18 replies

washingsomuchwashing · 20/03/2024 21:29

I love Fi and Jane - so funny and entertaining. Why are they so blinkered on the bloody TWAW thing though?! I know we don't all have to agree but I find it astonishing.

OP posts:
KnickerlessParsons · 20/03/2024 22:02

I haven't enjoyed Fi and Jane as much since they left their weekly a lot at the BBC for a daily slot at Times. They don't seem to have enough to talk about.

JulesJules · 20/03/2024 22:09

Agree, and I've actually stopped listening to them. They had Sharron Davies on talking about the threat to womens sports from men I/D as women and then competing in women's events and afterwards they said of course this was just her view due to her experience racing against E Germans.

I think Jane in particular is still in a BBC frame of mind where you have to present 'both sides' for 'balance'.

I couldn't believe my ears when Jane, former Woman's Hour presenter, was talking to John Pienaar about how ridiculous it was to make a fuss over such a tiny number of people. I was shouting at the radio - what about the effect on women, do you not see it or are you pretending?

Mollyollydolly · 20/03/2024 22:54

I know we all like different things, but I can't stand them. Female equivalent of Ronson and Buxton.

MrsWhattery · 21/03/2024 09:35

how ridiculous it was to make a fuss over such a tiny number of people.

I don’t understand how people can’t see what a daft argument this is. If something is unfair and wrong and harmful then it’s OK to make a fuss whether it’s one person or a millions people. (Aside from the fact that this is affecting huge numbers of women in sports, prisons, schools, workplaces etc and the harms of transitioning are affecting huge numbers of confused young people especially girls…)

White people who publicly identify as black are very rare indeed but a big fuss is made about them because it’s rightly seen as deluded and insulting. And the stigma and honesty about it is exactly the reason huge numbers of people don’t do that.

if being “trans-race” was being celebrated and written into laws and shoved down everyone’s throats in workplace training sessions and helped you get a job or a grant and made you into the cool kid at school and was pushed as an answer to all your problems, loads of people would be doing it. Some might genuinely “identify” as a different ethnicity, many would just be confused or grifters or allow themselves to be persuaded.

If you don’t make a fuss about something that’s wrong and illogical, then you allow it to become normalised.

And I’m not talking about trans people existing - they can do what they want and perceive themselves how they want. But saying they are actually the opposite sex so should be able to take the rights and spaces of the opposite sex - no, that’s factually wrong.

AvacadoFieldsForever · 21/03/2024 09:45

how ridiculous it was to make a fuss over such a tiny number of people.

That would be great if it was actually applied sensibly to the whole thing - why change all the medical language in if it’s just a tiny number of people?

Why get people fired if it’s a fuss over a tiny number of people?

Why change sport for 8 billion people because of a fuss over such a tiny number of people?

MrsWhattery · 21/03/2024 09:54

Although to be fair I think it’s the kind of “argument” that’s often made by well-meaning be-kind-ers who know they’re supposed to think TWAW etc in order to be a good person, but they don’t know why and don’t have any good explanation for it, so they fall back on whatever weak justification they’ve heard.

It’s a bit like the “but sport’s not fair anyway really, is it?” one I’ve heard from similar journalists. They are intelligent people who wouldn’t normally abandon all critical thought processes to a nonsense argument like that, but they’re in a bind and “being seen as a good person” is the priority.

SmallandSpanish · 22/04/2025 23:07

I LOVE Jane and Fi but I am so disappointed in them on this. They skimmed over the Supreme Court decision and now they’ve just skimmed over their apology. Fi dodged it completely and they’ve spent more time taking about pigeons. I want to write an email but…. sigh. Do they REALLY need this explaining? I don’t think so, I can only assume they are being cowardly by refusing to speak out. So disappointing.

KnickerlessParsons · 22/04/2025 23:22

KnickerlessParsons · 20/03/2024 22:02

I haven't enjoyed Fi and Jane as much since they left their weekly a lot at the BBC for a daily slot at Times. They don't seem to have enough to talk about.

Same here. Daily is too often and the ads annoy me too.
The very early BBC podcasts were the best: when they used to sit in the BBC piazza and stop people walking by and ask them for a chat.
The Covid years were good too.
Its all too formulaic and scripted these days.

HesSoBadHesGood · 22/04/2025 23:25

Trouble is, if they have such poor reasoning skills over women's issues and the news stories that are important to women (and why) when THEY ARE WOMEN, well. I just cannot trust anything they comment upon, can I? So I swerve them.

MarieDeGournay · 22/04/2025 23:34

AvacadoFieldsForever · 21/03/2024 09:45

how ridiculous it was to make a fuss over such a tiny number of people.

That would be great if it was actually applied sensibly to the whole thing - why change all the medical language in if it’s just a tiny number of people?

Why get people fired if it’s a fuss over a tiny number of people?

Why change sport for 8 billion people because of a fuss over such a tiny number of people?

This is such a good point, AvacadoFieldsForever - according to google there are nearly 70m people in the UK, and 262,000 of them identified as transgender in the last census.* *It isn't just medical language that had to change to suit them, but the law, education, the media, you name it.
Ditto the luxury of 'third spaces' that no-one actually needs - just to appease the the tiny minority.

Scout2016 · 23/04/2025 00:20

I only listen to the podcasts not live but I'm really pissed off. I emailed them with great detail after last week's comments.
Today Jane M has given a squirming non apology in 1min 15, during which she managed to again be dismissive because hey, it's only a tiny percentage of the prison population.

Yes Jane, but 1 one woman sharing a cell with a man is too many. 1 female prison o fficer having to search a man is too many. And there are only 12 women's prisons, so even 260 trans women would be 20 per prison if they were all accommodated by gender, affecting masses of prisoners and staff.
BeThat's before we even look at how vulnerable the sort of women in prison are, often victims several times over and with trauma, and the law key crimes they are in for. Compared to the type of crimes TW are in for....

Just so f-ing offensive. I'd rather Jane M'd just said she read the emails but didn't agree than that crappy apology. "So open minded your brain's fallen out" comes to mind.

Scout2016 · 23/04/2025 00:22

I have emailed again, pointing out what I just posted, and asking Jane G not to bother apologising if it's going to be as offensive a non apology as Jane M's.

SternJoyousBee · 23/04/2025 00:32

I have never listened to their podcast but remember them both from 5Live

Shelagh Fogarty was great on LBC today

ThePoshUns · 23/04/2025 07:36

They are the only hosts on Times radio that I can’t bear to listen to. They waffle on like a pair of retirees in a coffee shop. I’m sure they are only there because the owners ‘think’ that’s what middle
aged women want to listen to. Not surprised they hold such views, they aren’t great thinkers.

Glamourreader · 23/04/2025 07:43

I stopped listening over this issue.

If they can't be bothered to care about nurses being forced to change with men, prisoners trapped with men or any female feeling unsafe in single sex spaces then I can't bear their company.

dubaichocolate · 23/04/2025 10:44

I wouldn’t care but they handwring all the time about their privilege and they clearly want to show just because they’re white, middle-class media types that they “get it” please don’t cancel us. Yet actually on this they show how absolutely privileged white middle class media bubble types they really are.

Scout2016 · 23/04/2025 11:02

dubaichocolate · 23/04/2025 10:44

I wouldn’t care but they handwring all the time about their privilege and they clearly want to show just because they’re white, middle-class media types that they “get it” please don’t cancel us. Yet actually on this they show how absolutely privileged white middle class media bubble types they really are.

Yes this, with bells on. With a side of "I'm so libral and worldy, just too cool for you mortals, let's all talk some more about sex" for Jane M.

In my first email one of the things I pointed out that they aren't going to need a refuge or hostel, because they know people with spare rooms and money.

I naively thought they didn't know, which was baffling, rather than didn't care.

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