Anti-black racism comparators

[WobbliHead3000]

First of all, I’m not sure where to put this thread as it’s not for ‘Black Mumsnetters’, nor am I willing to be told IABU in the AIBU section. This is for Mumsnet as a whole and those who have used certain arguments when it suits the narrative they truly want to believe.

Anyway. I regularly see comments on other threads about discrimination, anti-semitism, Islamaphobia etc. which point to anti-black racism as the benchmark for successful interventions. Comments like “When a black person says they’ve been discriminated against we accept it, so why not in xxxxx case”, or “Black women are believed”, or “Look at how big the BLM movement was and how much progress has been made since 2020!”. Comments like the aforementioned are regularly used to make out that other forms of racism and discrimination are not supported as much and somehow we (I am black) are ahead of, and get more preferential treatment than other groups.

Following the disgusting comments made by a Tory Donor and the subsequent fallout, I just want to ask mumsnetters to reflect on this and not use this type argument again. The current dialogue, gaslighting of black people and the way Dianne Abbott continues to be treated by both her Labour Party colleagues, the speaker of the house and most MPs should tell you why.

In a month where millions in funding has been announced for MPs and citizens who feel threatened for some reason or other, Dianne - who has been shown to be the target of the most abuse and threats as an MP - has been erased from a conversation about her OWN LIVED experience in a parliamentary debate after being overlooked no less than 46 times. Incredible!

In a month where working definitions have been reworked to suit certain government figures and the protection of some (whether you agree or disagree with the outcomes this is a result of lobbying and pressure), we again are shown that whilst lots of noise can be made, nothing has changed in reality. No one has condemned anyone, statements have been made to separate the comment from the individuals values, and NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

Before anyone says, “But everyone has agreed the comments were racist”, please take a look at some of the commentary surrounding the matter and the multitude of excuses being made. Take a look at the fact that people are debating what should be a very simple matter and acting as if this was a slip of the tongue and he would never have said this if he knew it would get out.

I have many more thoughts however I want to reiterate that anti-black racism, whilst now difficult to deny, is not respected or acted upon in a swift manner or even full stop. Not much will happen, the furore will die down and we will go back to the status quo.

If you don’t stand up for us in the moment, then please do not use us as an example to score points later down the line.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68556911.amp

Totally agree with you.

If nothing else, I hope that this furore will help people to recognise and understand that anti-black racism is still deeply embedded within our society.

I still can't quite believe that DA wasn't given the opportunity to speak in Parliament yesterday. It is deeply disturbing, but at the same time, I know it's just the tip of the iceberg.

Agree with OP.

yy MrsBennett. It was a real bloody hell moment.

I’ve just watched the video footage of Diane Abbott being repeatedly ignored and it’s shocking. She was effectively invisible. Shamelessly ghosted about an incident that affected her personally!

Did anyone else stand up multiple times only to be ignored, I wonder?

Dear OP - suspect what you have posted has a place on all forums on mumsnet.

Even in this existing FWR thread some of what you describe has happened
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5027061-tory-donors-alleged-diane-abbott-remarks-were-racist-says-kemi-badenoch

Thank you for posting - it’s so important that we recognise the huge extent of racism in our society. I felt like I was living in a parallel universe hearing politicians deny that this was racism. And as for Dianne not being allowed to speak, it churned my stomach.

Thing is, as a white person living in the UK, I have the privilege not to have to think about race, other than when this sort of vile stuff happens. Your post has reminded me that I have a responsibility to think about race. I’m going to reflect on what I can do to be a better ally.

I find it really hard to know how I can contribute, particularly where (as eg at my workplace) racism is structural rather than “individual acts of meanness”, and we see it in outcomes (where are all the black leaders? why are black colleagues’ performance scores unrepresentatively low?) rather than in rules or even culture in any overt way that I can recognise (we have senior leaders with a responsibility for race equality in the organisation and regular talks, training, mentoring etc). Looking at comparable organisations, we seem to be doing the right things - but the outcomes are not there.

But stuff like this Tory donor makes me wonder what on earth can any individual do in any individual workplace, when the culture we all live in is so completely fucked? Which isn’t to say I’m going to give up, just that I absolutely despair while trying to plod forward. (And if this is how I feel as a white woman, I can’t begin to imagine how you must feel, OP.)

Thank you for your post wobblihead

I completely agree with you

I cannot understand how the speaker can justify ignoring her tbh. It is just inflicting even more humiliation and disrespect. Shameful.

Great post OP. The thing is I think a lot of organisations do anti-racist virtue signalling, but in terms of meaningful action where it's actually needed it's not happening - e.g. that poor young girl strip searched by the police. Has anyone been sacked for that? What's happened? Last I heard officers faced charges of gross misconduct (and could be sacked) but that was last year, so it had taken 3 years to get to that point.

The outcome of that has not been reported as far as I can see and it all takes far too long. There should be swifter justice. The dragging out of disciplining those officers will not help that child (now an adult). How can she feel she's in a society where she is safe after that, and the massive delay to justice?

The Labour party claim to be all about inclusion but they've not been very inclusive to Diane Abbott recently - whatever she did (not going to get into that) 11 months to investigate is far too long, they need to make a decision. And the Speaker should lose his job.

It's all about lived experience until, apparently, it's Diane Abbott and then everyone's quite willing to pontificate about this row endlessly, score political points off it and position themselves as taking the moral high ground, but not actually hear from the very person most affected. And I think that the deplatforming and silencing of Diane Abbot in the house of commons is almost a bigger issue than the original alleged comments - because she is an elected representative and this is parliament. It's the very seat of supposed democracy stopping her, an elected MP, from being heard. It was sort of a demonstration of how, if you have the wrong person in a position of power who is not held to account / there are no consequences for their actions then all the fine words about inclusion and diversity mean nothing.

Deeds not words etc.

The hatred shown to Diane Abbott this week has been shocking. Her treatment in the House and at the hands of her own party has also been shocking.

On MN there were plenty of people denouncing Hester's racism, yet they could not resist including a "but" that insulted or belittled DA or expressed hatred for her.

OP, you are right. The battle is far from won and this week has illustrated that.

That’s a really upsetting picture of her in the BBC clip. She’s resigned and shattered, sidelined and belittled.

Ive not seen the clip of Diane Abbott but what you are saying has happened is just awful

Totally agree with you op.
Feminists roll their eyes when a man says or implies that sexism is taken seriously and the battles are all won, but then some will go on to make similar comments about racism. The fact is that most of the time as a white woman I am not going to notice or pick up on racism so I risk going blithely through life assuming it’s not there.

OP, Amen yes! 👏🏿

Thank you for this thread OP. It is crushing. We have to do better. I can't stop thinking about her. The sustained vitrol she is being subjected to all the time would have broken anyone. I have no idea how she does it. The speaker should be dismissed.
The tories should give the racist money back.

Abbott has, for an eternity, been an example of the vicious hatred towards Black people, women, and Black women in particular.

I don't know how she manages to get out of bed, honestly. The courage is immense. And it shouldn't be required. She should be able to exist and have an opinion and be in public life without this shit.

Thanks OP.

Absolutely the Speaker should be sacked for pretending Diane did not exist in a debate that was talking about her. You could see she is almost resigned to it as it must be such a regular occurrence in Parliament.

It's reflective of everyday experiences for Black women; either being completely ignored in shops, or the shopkeeper serving the person behind you (this has happened to me on many occasions and I always speak up only to be told "oh sorry, I didn't see you there"). Speaking in meetings and having a man repeat the exact same thing before it's recognised as a good idea etc etc

Thank you for posting about this, @WobbliHead3000 .

I honestly didn’t expect this to be seen by many people, so thank you for the comments and ‘thanks’.

This topic is so incredibly frustrating and the dialogue since the event just keeps on getting worse. Kier Starmer’s woefully inadequate response- whilst emailing Labour voters asking for money- and the latest comments from the Conservative Party really drive home how little they care.

anyway. It’s nice to know that there are still likeminded individual s on MN 💕

Thank you. The ignorance and indifference to racism on Mumsnet is spectacular. Naively, I used to expect more from feminists. Some feminists on here are worse than many paid up right wing group members. Must be nice to only have to worry about men, being invisible from middle age and trans people, whilst conveniently ignoring the harm you cause to other women.

OP the Labour party ensured they didn't select anyone who didn't toe Starmer's line to be an prospective MP.

So you can be a hidden anti-Semite but as long as you are a "Yes" person to the Starner line you would get selected.

Diane Abbott doesn't toe Starmer's line.

Oh and all political parties in the UK have issues with racism.(The Tories are bloody obvious.) I'm only picking on Labour as that's the party Diane Abbott was elected an MP for.

Feminists roll their eyes when a man says or implies that sexism is taken seriously and the battles are all won, but then some will go on to make similar comments about racism.

Yes, I've seen this too, and it does my head in.

Of course it's not everyone behaving like this, by a long shot, but there's enough of it to be a real blight on MN.

I should speak up more often about it. If I'm exhausted, I can't imagine how Abbott feels.

@WobbliHead3000 I may not agree with Diane Abbot on a range of subjects but what was said was racist and misogynistic.

Her treatment in the House of Commons was also racist and misogynistic, how Lindsey Hoyle could not call her to speak was appalling.

I am aware Diane, and other women MPs, suffer far more abuse than male MPs.

@Socrateswasrightaboutvoting this is why myself and other people who are part of the global majority don't bother posting in this section.

I actually spend my time on MN dealing with the racism, including anti-Semitism, and Islamophobia on other parts of MN. As well as in real life.

Diane Abbott was suspended from the Labour party for saying something that, IMO, is partly true. However, whilst she apologised she remains under investigation.

Hester, however, can apologise and carry on regardless. The double standards in political life are mind blowing.

I understand that Hoyle was following parliamentary protocol but he absolutely should have given her the opportunity to talk.