Interview with Dr David Bell on puberty blockers

[ariel333]

Important interviews with Hannah Barnes and Dr David Bell on PM Radio 4 12/03 David Bell from 10:58 on:
'Puberty blockade was being given in the context of a service that was providing the wrong treatment. It's not just that they were being given puberty blockers, it was that for reasons that we understand to some extent, that is the inappropriate penetration of a kind of ideology that seemed to overwhelm ordinary clinical practice, that children and young people with multiple clinical problems - that is depression, histories of trauma, profound family disturbances, 35% autism, many just lost and alone - all these problems were presenting as problems of gender. And then that overshadowed all the other problems that went unaddressed and there was the rather crazy idea that if we transed these children, all the other problems would go away. These children suffered in two ways - one that they got the wrong treatment which has considerable risks and two other problems which they had were not being addressed.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001x4l9

It’s a very satisfying listen. He doesn’t let ED get away with any magical thinking nonsense. I wanted to cheer for him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09yk7dh

Here he was in 2021 in more detail and without the interruptions.

This is def worth a separate thread for easy reference. Thanks OP!

I also remember the Evan Davis PM episode where he interviewed the mother of a desisted daughter (I believe)- and the daughter too. He was, as I recall, all "but there are genuinely trans children too though of course" in that one too.
I'll try to track it down

I think this is a common POV, I've seen it too for example with ANdrew Sullivan, who has over the years come to be pretty sensible about what's going on with gender ideology.

But he can't seem to lose the idea that there is a set of kids who are "really trans" as if that is some kind of inherent human category, and that this set of kids, though they should be treated conservatively in terms of interventions, will grow up and want to present/live as the other sex and may want medical interventions then.

I don't think these people are necessarily or even usually being disingenuous in any way. They think that is what the best psychiatric science says.

I suspect that this kind of thinking won't really go away until it is clearly repudiated by medical bodies.

But he can't seem to lose the idea that there is a set of kids who are "really trans" as if that is some kind of inherent human category

Yes. I see what you are saying Tempest.
It's not disingenuous. It's a belief that's hard to let go of. I do hope David Bell has given ED some food for thought on this now.

I've got lots of David Bell links

Channel 4: https://www.channel4.com/news/children-have-been-very-seriously-damaged-by-nhs-gender-clinic-says-former-tavistock-staff-governor

Lots of him in the documentary Dysphoric:

Two stints on the Savage Minds podcast:

https://savageminds.substack.com/p/david-bell
https://savageminds.substack.com/p/david-bell-6cd

His first answer is an uninterrupted 25 minutes in the first one.

"they got the wrong treatment"

because there's no such thing as being 'transgender'.

I loved that he said gender dysphoria is a symptom.

Yes Helen Lewis is another who believes PBs are the right solution for some children.

The interruptions were really annoying. I think as a gay man Evan thinks he needs to stick up for the rainbow coalition. There’s nothing wrong and everything right in looking after gay kids, but there is something very wrong in thinking this entails encouraging them to ruin their healthy bodies and their future sexual relationships. Use those critical reasoning skills fgs Evan.

I daresay if the GBP were better informed about the gruesome details of 'neo-vaginas' and 'penises' made of a bit of your arm, and the functionality, or lack thereof, they'd be a lot less enthusiastic.

I think the insistence on the "but there are also actual trans kids" kind of dialogue is just arse covering so they don't get hounded out of theirjobs or get death threats or SWATted etc.

Tthe links are fab, thanks for all of those. Have listened to quite a few of them, and it's so nice to an expert talking sense. I'll listen to the rest tomorrow.

...so nice to hear an expert...

He was brilliant

Especially correcting ED on usage of ‘trans child’

There's a bit early on when ED has a wobble and loses his thread because he realizes that he's said that trans boys are female, which of course is FORBIDDEN and what that Justin just got disciplined for.

Disclaimer: I've only listened to Dr David Bell part, not the Hannah Barnes part

I think that ED question about "real" trans kids was appropriate. This is a question that I sure the majority of well meaning people who are not well versed in the subject would be asking. ED posed the question, DB responsed robustly. It was a pity it was wrapped up rather hurriedly, but I guess that is down to timing constraints.

I'm not a fan of ED at all but from the bit I listened to I thought he did OK.

I think that ED question about "real" trans kids was appropriate. This is a question that I sure the majority of well meaning people who are not well versed in the subject would be asking.

I think most people who are not well versed in the subject would think that the idea of transsexual kids is absurd.

I'd like to see people like ED challenged about their beliefs. It would be good if someone could respond to a question like that with another question. 'What do you mean by real trans kids?' This would require ED to explain what he thinks a "real" trans kid is in his belief system.

I think most people who are not well versed in the subject would think that the idea of transsexual kids is absurd.

I don't agree with this. If you've got school age or young adult children, you would have had to have been living under a rock not to have heard the term "trans kid", and given the dominance of the Stonewall et al narrative and the ubiquitous teaming of LGB and TQ+, then I think many, many people will assume that accepting a child is trans is no different to accepting that a child can be gay.

I've observed this first hand again and again in real-life friends and acquaintances.

Yes, many feel sure people are born trans.

Thank you very much for this transcript.

I don't usually support whataboutery but.

What would have happened to Evan Davis if his parents had decided to trans away the gay?

Fascinating ED vocal slip up/cogs whirring at 12.23 onwards

Evan Davis:
"Obviously a lot of the concerns built up around an absolute explosion in the number of particularly of teenage, erm, teenage girls coming forward and, erm, (pause) you know, erm, it was a rather unexplained phenomenon..."

Girls, eh, Evan? Are you sure you meant to say that? I mean, I absolutely agree but Justin Webb might need to budge up on the naughty step in a bit...

Joking aside, it is galling that, underneath it all, he knows there is an explosion in the number of teenage girls going to GIDS but he apparently lacks journalistic curiosity/ moral integrity to ever question the activist narrative about what is going on and just plays along with their games.

When you said people who aren't well versed in the subject I was thinking of older people who don't have young children, who still think that transsexualism is something indulged in by adults, usually male.