Andrew Doyle on WPATH - live now

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.gbnews.com/watch/live

Just starting to discuss the scandal.

Try here. It's Michael Shellenberger's substack.

https://public.substack.com/p/the-wpath-files

I think they are keeping quiet whilst major national news outlets remain schtum in the hope that it will all blow over in a weeks or so, then they will resume business as usual.

Do we think that this could actually happen? If it continues to be ignored by the national news outlets, will it blow over?

I have a friend, who knows my views, send me a link to the Observer article yesterday, she was surprised it had come up in her news feed.

Is there any way to watch this back?

Recording has been uploaded here (just getting around to watching it myself).

I started a separate thread on this. 2 mums taking NHS england to court over their teens being fast tracked into adult gender services. I suspect the WPATH files will feature heavily in the case.

Don't knock that 'immutable sex essence'.

What I haven't heard before is the implication that only trans people are aware of this special gender identity essence.

'Colour to a blind man', with the suggestion that everyone is blind to gender identity except for trans people.

That sex essence, eh?

I love the fact that White no longer denies the ‘male’ power of that voice. Remember when White tried to convince us it was about not damaging that voice’s loudness?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/4422361-prospect-magazine-kathleen-stock-v-robin-moira-white?page=4&reply=113189873

“I couldnt raise the pitch of my voice without losing power and the surgery is too risky given how important my speaking voice is as a professional tool.”

Yeah… how many of us pointed out that White was very well aware that male voices hold the power in so many areas of life and that White knew that very well. Only to be told we knew nothing.

Now at least White is up front that not raising the ‘pitch’ to White meant talking like ‘Minnie mouse’ and ‘ridiculous’. I don’t believe anything White says these days. There is too much inconsistency, and in promoting Read, plain old lack of thorough analysis.

Never a woman though. Because no woman has a male voice. Not to mention all that male privilege that never gets negated.

But but they constantly tell us that everyone had a gender identity. 🤔

Does it seem like RMW is saying 'you don't understand if you're not trans' whilst ignoring the clear parallel of 'you don't understand (what it's like to be a woman) if you're not one?'. It's such an act of male aggression to believe you can know how women feel. Such pomposity.

Good to see someone coming around to our view that women don't have this special "female essence" that transwomen have.

Will White share with us this new rigorous data White claimed exists that proves cutting off the healthy body parts of vulnerable people, like Ritchie and otherwise confused children, solves "gender incongruence"?(Note the constant rebranding of what they are treating alongside the circular definitions of "gender" magical feels. Those goal posts keep moving, I assume, to hide the fact that they are treating children for not living up to sex stereotypes - hardly a progressive stance).

Does this evidence White references, I wonder, come from the actual future? It would need to as the current cohort is young and novel and not in fact populated by middle aged straight men with a passion for Spanish airports.

How can this person claim that thousands of children fast-tracked by the gender butchers following the Dutch Protocol are living their best lives? Is it the lack of record keeping by these gender evangelists that makes White and other activists convinced they are "on the right side of history" and claim there is a "low regret rate"? What is this "low figure" they claim exists for detransitioners? Do they have a ball park figure for acceptable harms to mostly gay, autistic and Looked After Children given irreversible drugs via the affirmation-only route? How many children, I wonder, need to be permanently damaged to justify their own life style choices?

Live your best life, by all means, if that means pretending you're not the sex you are, you do you, however it does not mean I should be forced to play along with it. Your right to swing your arms about wildly stops when you hit another person. I won't be compelled to lie.

At this point, when our laws, policies, media and institutions are being warped and subverted by this quasi-religion, I will not pretend I believe in "gender essence". I will not be labelled with terms associated with this belief. 2+2=4.

I am sick of reality-denying delusionists strong-arming the rest of society to go along with the fantasy that they can change sex. And it is profoundly cruel to suggest this impossible thing to children. The only way to really #bekind is to tell the truth.

One day, we may even discuss the scandal that is the DSM and its pharma-endorsed Top Trumps approach to medical care. I'm going to hazard a guess that the crossover of reality-denying activists involved in both it and WPATH is significant.

To me, this is the greatest part of the medical scandal for children. It’s not that there’s no evidence the medical treatments work, it’s the fact there’s no evidence for what the medical treatments are supposed to work for.

I think the suggestion is more that we all have it, but only special people have the ability to perceive it.

lonelywater · Yesterday 20:41

would you expect anyone up to their neck in this car crash to appear?

It's quite telling that they declined, they must realise that they can defend the indefensible.

Christ on a bike that NHS video.

Appalling - the banality of evil as Helen Joyce - who appeared visibly upset by it - said.

Good for GB news and Doyle for showing it. It is very much in the public, and parent's, interests. It's also about safeguarding and as those supposed to safeguard children are failing, we need journalists to step up. As they (eventually) did for the Post office scandal.

That 'doctor' who is claiming the norm for starting periods is 9 and other sources say he claims he's a transman* (which only a biological woman can be) seems to be unable not to lie - you just have to look at him and hear his voice to see he's lying - and should NOT be in charge of medical care for anyone, let alone children. Is it possible to raise a safeguarding concern with medical authorities about this video and the fitness to practice of the person giving it?

I know a lot of girls and 9 was very much the outlier early end of periods. Most didn't get them until secondary school, which is at least 2 years later.

He's talking about halting the puberty / inducing menopause in a 9 year old girl FFS. Inducing menopause - for what benefit? There is no evidence this is beneficial for gender questioning children. And what is the evidence of side effects / harm?

I bet they don't know.

They don't even know that much about natural menopause. The fact they're even talking about 'how many times' someone can go through menopause is really worrying. It's been a pretty one way street for all the women I know who've been through it - including those who've been through it due to cancer treatments. It's seems wildly and unethically optimistic to think you can just 'undo' it and go back to normal. Especially if you've never been through puberty in the first place at the appropriate time. Where's the evidence?

*Dear MN moderators - this man claims he's a transman, in which case his pronouns are probably he and him but the video didn't specify so I'm using normal, standard English, which more than 90% of the population use and which is to use sex based pronouns.

I think the suggestion is more that we all have it, but only special people have the ability to perceive it.

Ah, so not only can transwomen perceive their own "female essence" they can also perceive women's "female essence" (ew), despite women themselves not being able to?

No, can't be that - I'm sure there was some rule about not being able to say what other people's genders/essences are.

So, if a woman wears the essence that a transwoman has, what does that make her?

'I see trans people'.

What's Bruce Willis up to these days?

@HeartofSaturdayNight thank you for this paragraph it's such a clear explanation

"Live your best life, by all means, if that means pretending you're not the sex you are, you do you, however it does not mean I should be forced to play along with it. Your right to swing your arms about wildly stops when you hit another person. I won't be compelled to lie."

I think the basis is that a trans identifying person has a special, extra perception and also a unique license to talk about it.

So I guess Robin is qualified to instruct me, as a mere woman, in what my essence is. Because Robin can perceive it and I can't.

I'd like to thank Andrew Doyle and GB news for showing that progamme.

My only reservation is that I wish Doyle had asked RMW about the difference between transitioning as a mature, middle aged adult and transitioning as a child whose body and brain haven't fully developed. But I can understand why Doyle went in gently and mostly listened instead.

I was also pleased to see Doyle give Helen Joyce the right of reply to RMW's attack on her.

😶

Massive thanks @NecessaryScene for posting this link. I watched most of it last night on the GB News website so in addition to the joy of RMW (and the true joy of hearing everyone else take apart RMW's arguments afterwards) my viewing was interspersed with endless trailers newsclips and the likes of Nigel Farrage. So thank you for freeing us from that!

Helen Joyce is clear and sharp as usual and my favourite moment was Ritchie Herron swearing (he does it so well!)