Restoring Sanity Takes Time - Helen Joyce

[RethinkingLife]

A bracing read. I am still in a state of some despair about how long this will take. As several people have observed, in the last 10 days, the BBC (in common with other media) disseminated unscientific propaganda that male galactorrhea is better than mother’s milk, repeatedly called a deeply disturbed killer a woman while disdaining to acknowledge the alternate reality as a cat, and has publicly reprimanded Justin Webb for plain speaking that was probably helpful to many listeners.

What will it take to bring bigoted employers to heel? Part of the answer is time. During the past decade, the trans lobby has been stunningly successful in selling false analogies to HR departments: that separate toilets for men and women are like racial segregation; and that insisting people can change sex is “gay rights 2.0”.
Lazy, power-hungry HR managers and staff working in “EDI” (equality, diversity and inclusion) pronounce that the arc of the moral universe is bending towards denying sexual dimorphism, and relish imposing their will on others.
…
Imagine you’re an HR professional belatedly wondering if you’ve got the wrong end of the stick on the whole sex-gender thing. You might turn to A Practical Guide to Transgender Law by two barristers, Nicola Newbegin and transwoman Robin Moira White.
But that might not save you from serious missteps. The first edition, published before the binding Forstater judgment, enthusiastically endorsed the faulty lower court ruling. The second grudgingly acknowledged that yes, gender-critical beliefs were protected, but claimed that “manifesting” them — letting others know you held them — wasn’t.
Even before the recent string of judgments to the contrary, that was obvious nonsense. The law about freedom of belief expressly includes “manifestation”. And anyway, it takes but a moment’s thought to realise that the law can’t possibly concern beliefs that are never manifested, since it can’t reach inside the privacy of our heads.
…
At bottom, the mindset of the narcissistic identitarians joining in workplace witch-hunts is that of the Crusaders, who made converts at the point of a sword. They do not respect other people’s sovereign consciences, nor accept that their belief system is just one among many. And like the Crusaders, they need to be consigned to history.

https://thecritic.co.uk/restoring-sanity-takes-time/

Adding in a good read about the Meade and Phoenix rulings:

No. Men never have the right to be in women's single sex spaces defined under the Act. Trans women do, with the exceptions noted. See the EHRC statutory guidance.

As the statutory guidance says

From an organisation until recently completely captured by TRAs. Who throw their toys out of the pram every time there is a move towards fairness and dignity for women and girls.

What is a transwoman?

No. Men never have the right to be in women's single sex spaces defined under the Act. Trans women do, with the exceptions noted. See the EHRC statutory guidance.

See my cross post. MTF trans people are not women - most of them unequivocally don't meet the EA criteria of being female.

You can't have a single-sex space that includes people of both sexes. The idea is absolutely nonsensical. And no mammal has ever changed or will ever change sex.

What they always mean is that sex is an irrelevant little detail about people's lives that has absolutely no significance (something that I would expect a man to be far more likely to think than a woman). That what is important is gender, an undefined nebulous concept that is based entirely on individual cultures / historical periods and subjective feelings. Gender is basically sexism / sex stereotypes. There's no better definition that I've ever seen.

Thinking that women don't need single-sex spaces, that mixed-sex will do just fine, is an inherently misogynistic position.

Only a few thousand of these males have a GRC and any claim to being a "woman" legally. Single sex spaces of any kind rely on the same EA exceptions. They are used all the time.

Most "trans women" are legally men as per the Equality Act 2010.

Such a weird hobby - to spend so much time ruminating about, wishing and campaigning for trans people to be argued out of existence.

Rather like the weird hobby so many male people of all gender identifies have of bullying women that they can't expect to have basic privacy and dignity, or a category for the class of humans who can give birth, as opposed to the ejaculator class.

Some might say it's just misogyny in action.

They are not, under the EqA. You can safely assume that any toilet in the UK which has a Women symbol on it accommodates trans women.

They are mixed sex, both under the EA and in obvious biological reality. Stop gaslighting.

"And no mammal has ever changed or will ever change sex."

www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/22/the-mysterious-village-where-girls-turn-into-boys/

Males pushing their way into women's facilities and then lobbying for guidance from the Equalities quango which supports this is the issue here.

And you are now here twisting this rather obviously.

'Almost every single supermarket, public body and company does not exclude transgender people from toilets which match their gender identity. You want them to do so.'

Let's rephrase this.

Almost every single supermarket, public body and company [CAN] exclude transgender people from toilets which match their gender identity. You want them to do so.

See how that works.

You are here telling us that just because at the moment some organisations do not choose to exclude, that this then is a RIGHT to be claimed by male people who declare they should have access to any single sex space. No. That they have access to that space right now is all they have the right to access. And notice the time limit I have added there. Because that so called access is not and was never a permanent 'right' as you are trying to convince someone that they had.

If those organisations choose to exclude, that is not removing a right. That is that organisation acting under the Act using the exceptions already there. It is removing access which was not a true 'right' in the sense that you are trying to use it.

Only a misogynistic thinker would consider what amounts to acting as if someone had the right to do something at one time and one place to be that that someone actually had the right to do something generally.

You doubling down and saying that because an organisation has not utilised an exception available to them, those male people have 'rights' does not make it their 'right' in any true sense.

They're not actually girls though. It's a DSD.

Humans aren't fish, mushrooms or crocodiles and mammals cannot change sex.

Not bullying - disagreeing.
Not men, but trans rights supporters.
And not women, but gender critical people.

It's bizarre that there are so many issues which most women face - reproductive rights, FGM, the wage gap. crime, sexual assault, and yet the supposed feminists here are obsessing about the 1/1000 women who are transgender, aligning themselves with groups which oppose feminist goals.

I would like to know how it's misogynistic to campaign for trans women to have access to women's facilities? I understand that some women don't like it, but how is it actually misogynistic? Isn't it more misogynistic to define women by their reproductive capabilities, as above? (And not all women can give birth, nor can all men ejaculate.) People are more than just their biological functions.

I'm glad you're such an expert on my personal lived experience Dadjoke, please explain more things to me!

Excellent. And we are now campaigning to have that clarified and changed.

Because it has been an 'assumed' right that was never a bona fide 'right' in any general sense. And you saying it is a right does not change material reality. It will take time, but it will be sorted out.

I would like to know how it's misogynistic to campaign for trans women to have access to women's facilities?

That would be because many women (most actually) don't want to share female only spaces with males. Use your imagination.

I'm a 57 year old woman, mother of an adult daughter, and I've never been witness to or heard about this bullying in real life. I guess my experience is the norm - only a tiny, marginalised fraction of the population are trans. We'd hardly know trans women exist outside of discussions ABOUT them in the media. I think I've once knowingly stood in a toilet queue with a trans woman, but that was at a West End show by a trans performer where there were lots of trans women in the audience, so not the norm.

What are your personal, real life experiences of being bullied and oppressed by the existence of trans women?

I'm a 57 year old woman, mother of an adult daughter

This can mean precisely anything in gender identity ideology.

People are more than just their biological functions. However, the only thing that female people have in common are their biological functions, even when those biological functions don't work.

It is absolutely misogynist to define a female person, either a girl or a woman, using a male experience. The only thing a male person who identifies as a 'woman' is identifying as is that male person's interpretation of a female person's life and lived experience. ie. They only can ever identify as how they imagine a female person lives and feels.

If male people can say they are just the same as any other woman, then that is a misogynistic view. Because that is completely erasing the needs and realities of female people and centring that male person.