Restoring Sanity Takes Time - Helen Joyce

[RethinkingLife]

A bracing read. I am still in a state of some despair about how long this will take. As several people have observed, in the last 10 days, the BBC (in common with other media) disseminated unscientific propaganda that male galactorrhea is better than mother’s milk, repeatedly called a deeply disturbed killer a woman while disdaining to acknowledge the alternate reality as a cat, and has publicly reprimanded Justin Webb for plain speaking that was probably helpful to many listeners.

What will it take to bring bigoted employers to heel? Part of the answer is time. During the past decade, the trans lobby has been stunningly successful in selling false analogies to HR departments: that separate toilets for men and women are like racial segregation; and that insisting people can change sex is “gay rights 2.0”.
Lazy, power-hungry HR managers and staff working in “EDI” (equality, diversity and inclusion) pronounce that the arc of the moral universe is bending towards denying sexual dimorphism, and relish imposing their will on others.
…
Imagine you’re an HR professional belatedly wondering if you’ve got the wrong end of the stick on the whole sex-gender thing. You might turn to A Practical Guide to Transgender Law by two barristers, Nicola Newbegin and transwoman Robin Moira White.
But that might not save you from serious missteps. The first edition, published before the binding Forstater judgment, enthusiastically endorsed the faulty lower court ruling. The second grudgingly acknowledged that yes, gender-critical beliefs were protected, but claimed that “manifesting” them — letting others know you held them — wasn’t.
Even before the recent string of judgments to the contrary, that was obvious nonsense. The law about freedom of belief expressly includes “manifestation”. And anyway, it takes but a moment’s thought to realise that the law can’t possibly concern beliefs that are never manifested, since it can’t reach inside the privacy of our heads.
…
At bottom, the mindset of the narcissistic identitarians joining in workplace witch-hunts is that of the Crusaders, who made converts at the point of a sword. They do not respect other people’s sovereign consciences, nor accept that their belief system is just one among many. And like the Crusaders, they need to be consigned to history.

https://thecritic.co.uk/restoring-sanity-takes-time/

Adding in a good read about the Meade and Phoenix rulings:

Good point. Well made.

yep

The mood on this thread gives me the impression that some TRAs are very afraid of Helen Joyce, just as they are of JKR. Articulate intelligent women are a threat to - something.

When a movement has to use other's legitimate movements to prop up its arguments, you know that the movement has nothing concrete.

The fact we have seen swivels and swerves all over the shop on this thread reminds me that we still have much to do. Posters have attempted to use the plight of LGB people, black people and religion to shame women instead of finding actual evidence to support their arguments. Plus they seemed to think their swivel to 'what about trans men' was some kind of clever gotchas.

And then they have attempt to declare the they are somehow righteous and kind?

Where the fuck is society at that posters think their brand of feminism that excludes women with religious needs and that those women should be forgotten about because of their religious choices (or not choices) is somehow one that should be fucking lauded? Thinking back on this, that was just swept away by those posters. They thought nothing of trying to win points by virtue signalling against religious belief. They honestly thought that what they said was ok.

It's not remotely unusual though either.

That's how cults react.

You won't meet many activists who have even socially transitioned back down. They will either go silence, launch into an adult hominem attack or double down and defend anything.

That's ultimately what I fear most.

This

Interesting that on Xitter there is a great deal of discussion about the WPATH files while on Threads literally the only discussion I could find was about Erin Reed's "debunking" of them.

Yes of course "Erin" has "debunked" it all, like Katy Montgomerie "debunked" JK Rowling's essay on Medium.

I had a small failure of context switching and initially read that as 'debulked' (as in cancer tumours).

A lot of self-styled debunking is more readily understood as, "I disagree. For ideological reasons rather than evidence but my word should be accepted as sufficient for this as it is for other major areas of public life".

"The Fox Coral is both male and female and can reproduce sexually and asexually. To reproduce sexually, the corals release eggs and sperm at the same time."

And there we have it

We're just like coral, innit?

Jesus fucking Christ.

That casts a different light on a previous poster's faux naivety and possibly on the claim to be a middle aged woman with a daughter. However that poster has actually done a great job of allowing us to show what nonsense the TRA's claims are.

Hahaha. That name was literally one generated by mumsnet. The name I wanted was already taken, mumsnet suggested some random ones, that was the first on the list. Honestly. I've never heard of a fox coral.

You guys love a conspiracy theory don't you? It was a name randomly generated by mumsnet. I never claimed to have a daughter, am approaching middle age, and I wasn't being faux naive. I'm well aware of gender critical arguments but am mystified by them. Some people just don't like or understand your perspective. It's not all a convoluted conspiracy with hidden meanings.

Oh, and my sex and gender are both female.

Yes, absolutely.

It blows my mind that any grown adult would talk such bullshit with the arrogance that this poster has.

No one is denying anyone's existence.

I'm yet to read a single post on these boards that wish harm on ANYONE.

This insistence that we are denying the existence of people (WTF) and being 'hateful' for saying "hang on a minute, we're not happy with this and here are our well articulated reasons why" is nothing short of juvenile. And really, really embarrassing.

It's like your 14 year old declaring their life is over because you told them to get off the playstation.

Yeah, ok. Just a massive coincidence then.

I mean it genuinely is, but you've caused me much mirth and merriment with your conjecture. Magnificent! And lovely to have made such an impact that you've bothered to google my name. Very touching.

No, not really. There are many TRA dickheads that like to assert humans are just like clownfish or some other non mammal. I knew I'd heard fox coral referred to on Reddit or somewhere equally ridiculous. So I looked it up to check I wasn't mistaken. Fact checking is always good.

Not really made an impact on me, mate.
You're ten a penny.

I'm intrigued that you are 'mystified' by GC arguments. Perhaps the following will help: https://thecritic.co.uk/all-roads-lead-to-wpath/
https://cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/
https://lgballiance.org.uk/gender-recognition-act-reform/
https://fairplayforwomen.com/new-report-how-trans-inclusion-in-sport-is-harming-women-and-girls/

Really? I thought we were a tiny minority. (I don't mean I'm trans. I'm not. But I thought those of us who were advocating for trans people's civil and human rights were a tiny minority foisting our will on a helpless majority.)

I've absolutely no wish to investigate further. I've heard quite enough.

Sounds like wilful ignorance to me.

Mumsnet doesn't 'generate names'.

I'm well aware of gender critical arguments but am mystified by them.

I'm mystified that some people have such a lack of intelligence that they believe people can change sex.

I'm mystified that some people are so misogynistic they think that women and girls are no more than validation tools, human shields and collateral damage so men can have all they desire and then some.

I'm mystified that some people declare themselves feminist while pushing a male rights agenda.

It literally suggested some names, when I set up an account, and the one I tried was taken. That's what happened. Try it yourself and see. This is bonkers!

I support trans rights. I've no interest in changing my stance, or giving credence to the demonisation of any group on the basis of their identity.