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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Happy Women's History Month!

259 replies

ArabellaScott · 01/03/2024 11:17

I had no idea women got a whole month!!!

I can't wait to see the flags flying from every government building and all the celebrations of women in history everywhere. 😊

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EBearhug · 28/03/2024 17:31

CrossPurposes · 28/03/2024 13:49

The Pankhursts were not all of the same political viewpoint - Sylvia was a socialist and a pacifist who did much work in the east end of London. She also found time to have a relationship with Keir Hardy, an illegitimate child, and become friends with Haile Selassie: spartacus-educational.com/WpankhurstS.htm

She was also an artist and painted lots of women working.

SinnerBoy · 03/04/2024 10:10

Here is one about the world's first female aircraft engineer and designer. She overcame Polio as well:

https://twitter.com/TheAttagirls/status/1772888409066877291

https://twitter.com/TheAttagirls/status/1772888409066877291

ArabellaScott · 31/05/2024 11:25

Margaret Cavendish's fascinating life:

https://aeon.co/essays/the-contradictions-that-give-life-to-margaret-cavendishs-story

'In the 17th century, works by women reaching the printing press were vanishingly few and far between. Between 1621 and 1625, only eight works by women were published, an estimated 0.5 per cent of all books printed in the period. Between 1651 to 1655 – the years in which Cavendish published four volumes – 59 new works by women appeared; an estimated 1.3 per cent of total publications. Even with this uptick in women’s writing, the vast majority of these works by women were on the ‘safe’ subjects of maternal advice or religion. Women who didn’t stay within these boundaries risked more than just not being read; they could be branded as improper, as scandalous, as somehow promiscuous for baring their words to the page. Cavendish was a trend-setter, and an outlier.'

'Cavendish is normally remembered for three things: for being ‘mad’ (an accusation that has dogged her since an all-too-easily scandalised reader of her first book, one Dorothy Osborne, quipped that she had seen ‘soberer people in Bedlam’), for wearing outrageous clothes (she supposedly cavorted around London in a carriage pulled by eight white bulls, and wore dresses cut to below the level of her nipples), and, rather more nebulously, for being the ‘mother of science fiction’.'

'Cavendish’s book The Blazing World (1666) – with its futuristic submarines in a parallel world, races of anthropomorphic human-animals, and flashy scientific experiments – is indeed an early work of science fiction.'

'... the book is a romp of descriptions of philosophical experiments, with microscopes and mathematical explanations, scientific debates and explorations of sapphic love. Here, Cavendish was again radical: her explorations of lesbianism – in her plays, and in The Blazing World – are unusual for the 17th century. Rather than being the bawdy, sticky imaginations of men, her description of women’s relationships bears the hallmarks of truth and emotion. ‘But why may not I love a Woman with the same affection I could a Man?’ asks one of her characters in The Convent of Pleasure (1668).'

Her book 'Poems and Fancies'

https://archive.org/details/poemsfancies00newc/

<p>Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, painted in 1665 by Peter Lely. Courtesy Wikipedia/the <a href="https://harleyfoundation.org.uk/about/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Harley Foundation</a></p>

The contradictions that give life to Margaret Cavendish’s story | Aeon Essays

Margaret Cavendish’s boldness and bravery set 17th-century society alight, but is she a feminist poster-girl for our times?

https://aeon.co/essays/the-contradictions-that-give-life-to-margaret-cavendishs-story

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MarieDeGournay · 31/05/2024 12:30

The Gráinne Ní Mháille, Grace O'Malley - Irish 'pirate queen' - leader and seafarer [aka 'pirate queen''] and all-round badass in 16th century Connacht . Her nickname, Gráinne Mhaol, ['Granuaile'] probably means that she had short hair. She sailed to Greenwich to meet with Queen Elizabeth I in 1593, and the Gaelic-speaking and English-speaking women conversed fluently in Latin, and seemed to get on well, Elizabeth granting freedom for Gráine's son and protection for her into her old age.

MarieDeGournay · 31/05/2024 12:35

Maybe the name Margaret Ann Bulkley, born in Cork in 1789 doesn't ring any bells, you might know her better as Dr James BarrySmile

CrossPurposes · 31/05/2024 12:46

MarieDeGournay · 31/05/2024 12:35

Maybe the name Margaret Ann Bulkley, born in Cork in 1789 doesn't ring any bells, you might know her better as Dr James BarrySmile

She was a trans man - not a woman gaming the system to do what she was clearly good at, obviously - see this from The National Archives (!) https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/dr-james-barry/

I'm so angry at this missed opportunity to discuss why a woman might take on a male persona to study medicine decades before women were allowed to become doctors.

MarieDeGournay · 31/05/2024 13:00

ArabellaScott · 31/05/2024 11:25

Margaret Cavendish's fascinating life:

https://aeon.co/essays/the-contradictions-that-give-life-to-margaret-cavendishs-story

'In the 17th century, works by women reaching the printing press were vanishingly few and far between. Between 1621 and 1625, only eight works by women were published, an estimated 0.5 per cent of all books printed in the period. Between 1651 to 1655 – the years in which Cavendish published four volumes – 59 new works by women appeared; an estimated 1.3 per cent of total publications. Even with this uptick in women’s writing, the vast majority of these works by women were on the ‘safe’ subjects of maternal advice or religion. Women who didn’t stay within these boundaries risked more than just not being read; they could be branded as improper, as scandalous, as somehow promiscuous for baring their words to the page. Cavendish was a trend-setter, and an outlier.'

'Cavendish is normally remembered for three things: for being ‘mad’ (an accusation that has dogged her since an all-too-easily scandalised reader of her first book, one Dorothy Osborne, quipped that she had seen ‘soberer people in Bedlam’), for wearing outrageous clothes (she supposedly cavorted around London in a carriage pulled by eight white bulls, and wore dresses cut to below the level of her nipples), and, rather more nebulously, for being the ‘mother of science fiction’.'

'Cavendish’s book The Blazing World (1666) – with its futuristic submarines in a parallel world, races of anthropomorphic human-animals, and flashy scientific experiments – is indeed an early work of science fiction.'

'... the book is a romp of descriptions of philosophical experiments, with microscopes and mathematical explanations, scientific debates and explorations of sapphic love. Here, Cavendish was again radical: her explorations of lesbianism – in her plays, and in The Blazing World – are unusual for the 17th century. Rather than being the bawdy, sticky imaginations of men, her description of women’s relationships bears the hallmarks of truth and emotion. ‘But why may not I love a Woman with the same affection I could a Man?’ asks one of her characters in The Convent of Pleasure (1668).'

Her book 'Poems and Fancies'

https://archive.org/details/poemsfancies00newc/

Elizabeth Egerton, Countess of Bridgewater (née Lady Elizabeth Cavendish; 1626 – 14 July 1663)
stepdaughter?? of Margaret Cavendish - I think Margaret was the second wife of the Duke of Newcastle, Elizabeth's father, sorry I'm not great at history!

She also wrote about equality for women, but her writings about her children are so moving - she had 10 pregnancies, the final one taking her life; and only four of her children survived into adulthood.

I discovered her through her beautiful beautiful poem on the death of one of those babies, her son Henry. I won't copy it in here, as it is so moving and emotional I think it could be really difficult for anyone who has had that tragedy in their own life; but here's a link to it, with a big trigger warning, if you shared her experience, and if you have tears to shed, prepare to shed them, if you just have a heart:
Poem: On My Boy Henry by Elizabeth, Lady Brackley Egerton (poetrynook.com)

ArabellaScott · 31/05/2024 13:16

That is beautiful, Marie, thank you for sharing it.

(and yes, that's Margaret Cavendish's stepdaughter! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Cavendish,_Countess_of_Bridgewater)

Elizabeth Cavendish, Countess of Bridgewater - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Cavendish,_Countess_of_Bridgewater

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MarieDeGournay · 01/06/2024 12:44

It's me again, sorry if I'm over-posting, but I notice that Women's History Month has dwindled on this thread, and I've thought of someone else I'd like to celebrate: the woman who invented the paper bag!
well, the paper bag with a flat bottom, which became standard in the US and which people in American films carry their groceries in, one in each arm...

Margaret Knight was from a poor background, brought up by her widowed mother, and had to go and work in the textile mills in New Hampshire when she was 12.
She invented lots of things, as well as the paper bag, but because she was a woman, and because she wasn't able to get education/training past the age of 12, she didn't realise all her ambitions.
'I’m only sorry I couldn’t have had as good a chance as a boy, and have been put to my trade regularly'
Margaret E. Knight - Wikipedia

Margaret E. Knight - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_E._Knight

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SinnerBoy · 01/06/2024 21:45

Blimey, Isobel Wylie Hutchinson was a fascinating woman and incredibly tough. She doesn't seem to have much recognition for all she did for botany and in such tough environments. I think her story would make a brilliant film.

MarieDeGournay · 02/06/2024 11:47

This one that is all about moi, Marie de Gournay.

I was born in Paris in 1565 - though people tell me I don't look a day over 450. In my day posh girls were only supposed to study needlework and being ladylike enough to be marriageable, but I was having none of that, so I taught myself Latin and Greek and studied the classics and anything else I could get my hands on, thereby making myself totally unmarriageable Wink

I moved out of the family home to live on my own in Paris - you can imagine the raised eyebrows that caused! and set about earning my living through writing - not an easy job for a woman in the 15th century - has it got any easier? oh right, JKR, yeah I guess it has - but she struggled in the beginning too, didn't she? It takes a long time to be an overnight sensation.

I was, I confess, a complete fangirl for Michel de Montaigne, and I was lucky enough to meet him, and we totally clicked intellectually and he considered me his adopted daughter. We corresponded regularly until his death. His widow Francoise invited me to edit and publish his Essais, which I was honoured to do: 'I was his daughter: I am his memorial'.
I spent over a year living with her and their daughter Léonor, my adopted family, immersed in the works of the great Montaigne which I continued to edit.

I wrote about society, ethics, morals, language, education, poetics, philosophy - but MNers will probably consider my 'greatest hits' to be my Equality Between Men and Women and Grief des Dames /Complaint of the Ladies [not 'The Ladies' Complaint', that would be a different book altogether - translation can be a minefield!]
As I said in the Grief des Dames:
'this sex has its own power taken away; with this freedom gone, the possibility of developing virtues through the use of freedom disappears. This sex is left with the sovereign and unique virtues of ignorance, servitude, and the capacity to play the fool, if this game pleases it.'
If I posted something like that (OK I admit it would have to be updated a bit) on FWR today I'd get lots of 'This' and 👏and 💜, wouldn't I?

Life was a struggle, and I never became a household name and there's no Grief des Dames t-shirts or mugs or anything - maybe I just never met the right gerbilsSmile - but I was a trailblazer for women thinkers and writers and I was well respected by a select group in my day, most importantly by my dear friend the brilliant Michel de Montaigne, and I have been rediscovered by feminist scholars and philosophers recently.
So I approach my 460th birthday with a quiet satisfaction that the totality of my work is being appreciated at last. Not exactly an overnight sensation, but hey...
Gournay, Marie Le Jars de | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (utm.edu)

SinnerBoy · 02/06/2024 11:51

496? Daahling, you're 400 if you're a day! mwouh!

Life was a struggle, and I never became a household name and there's no Grief des Damest-shirts or mugs or anything

Well, what's preventing from rectifying that now?

ArabellaScott · 02/06/2024 14:42

Fantastic Marie, thank you! I like the thought of making oneself unmarriageable.

And Mary Kenner's quietly determined inventiveness is very moving.

'she believed that anyone could become an inventor as long as they put their mind to it: “Every person is born with a creative mind,” she said. “Everyone has that ability.”'

Absolutely.

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ArabellaScott · 02/06/2024 14:48

Seeing as we're sharing, here is the criminal record of Arabella Charlotte Scott.

I too was very determined - I suffered greatly but persisted, was arrested, rearrested, force fed so violently my teeth were broken, force fed for months. You can read the frustrations of the authorities, police, and Secretary of State in pursuing and trying to subdue me:

https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files/exhibitions/women-suffrage/hh16-44.html

While in hindsight some of the suffragette acts all often sounds a bit jolly, mischief-stirring and like a lot of japes and hi-jinks, it's hard to think about women tortured in prison. Here is a letter from me to my sister, trying to soothe my family's worries.

Happy Women's History Month!
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MarieDeGournay · 02/06/2024 15:05

Nice to meet you, Arabella Charlotte Scott, what a brave, honourable woman, and a loving sister!
And the admirable inventiveness and persistence of Mary Kenner - just think how better the world would be if all your brilliant ideas had been recognised and realised, not to mention the recognition, praise and financial reward you deserved but never got.

More stories, please, I'm loving this thread😙[that's 'kiss with smiling eyes', allegedly - I don't like this set of emojis😒['unamused']

MarieDeGournay · 02/06/2024 17:44

Amelia Earhart wasn't just a pioneer of aviation, and of aviation as a commercial operation - two separate achievements - but she also designed clothes, like this:

Happy Women's History Month!
ArabellaScott · 04/06/2024 23:15

https://www.science.org/content/article/graves-celtic-princes-suggest-powerful-role-women-ancient-germany

Not read all.of this yet - Celtic graves suggest a matrinlinear society.

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Ofcourseshecan · 05/06/2024 09:00

This is great. I have a long train journey coming up, so I’m saving this to read then. Looking forward to it.

ArabellaScott · 27/06/2024 18:03

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/hypatia-ancient-alexandrias-great-female-scholar-10942888/

Behold - Hypatia!

One of the foremost scholars of her time, a professor, mathematician, philosopher.

'She was a mathematician and astronomer in her own right, writing commentaries of her own and teaching a succession of students from her home. Letters from one of these students, Synesius, indicate that these lessons included how to design an astrolabe, a kind of portable astronomical calculator that would be used until the 19th century.
Beyond her father’s areas of expertise, Hypatia established herself as a philosopher in what is now known as the Neoplatonic school, a belief system in which everything emanates from the One. (Her student Synesius would become a bishop in the Christian church and incorporate Neoplatonic principles into the doctrine of the Trinity.) Her public lectures were popular and drew crowds.“'

During the decline of Alexandria, and in the context of religious wars between Christians, Jews, and pagans, she was scapegoated by zealots, and quite literally torn to pieces. Pulled from her carriage, she was flayed with oyster shells (which were used for roofing, iirc), her remains were then burned, as was the great library of Alexandria.

On the streets of Alexandria, Egypt, a mob led by Peter the Lector brutally murdered Hypatia, one of the last great thinkers of ancient Alexandria.

Hypatia, Ancient Alexandria’s Great Female Scholar

An avowed paganist in a time of religious strife, Hypatia was also one of the first women to study math, astronomy and philosophy

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/hypatia-ancient-alexandrias-great-female-scholar-10942888

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MarieDeGournay · 27/06/2024 23:35

Thank you AS, I'm delighted to have this thread updated, I thought our Women's History Month fizzled out a bit..
Let's make it one of those 'months' that seems to happen every time someone with a flag feels like it🙄

MarieDeGournay · 27/06/2024 23:44

Celebrating the Centennial of Bessie Coleman as the First Licensed African American Woman Pilot | National Air and Space Museum

Bessie Coleman 1892 – 1926 was the first African-American (and part Cherokee) woman to get a pilot's licence.
She learnt to fly in France - echoes of Black Americans like Josephine Baker finding greater freedom in Europe than in the USA of the early 20th century, where it would have been impossible for Bessie Coleman to get flying lessons.

Happy Women's History Month!
SinnerBoy · 28/06/2024 09:35

ArabellaScott · Yesterday 18:03

Behold - Hypatia!

Blimey, what a horrific way to be killed.

ArabellaScott · 28/06/2024 09:37

SinnerBoy · 28/06/2024 09:35

ArabellaScott · Yesterday 18:03

Behold - Hypatia!

Blimey, what a horrific way to be killed.

Yes, indeed. Not known for their compassion, raging mobs.

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