Kim O'Brien forfeits women's final at the European Pool Championships in protest against playing a man

[catduckgoose]

Lynne Pinches posted a video of Kim refusing to take part in this male entitlement charade: https://twitter.com/PinchesLynne/status/1763217887500685339

It shouldn't have to be this way but well done Kim on taking the tough but principled decision to walk away 👏👏👏

Riley Gaines has pledged to pay O'Brien the prize money she lost out on.

Gaines said "at this tournament there were two males that were playing, meaning there were two men playing in the women's elite pro section where only 32 athletes are offered spots"

I applaud these principled women. I regret that they have to be the ones to lead this pushback because it must be hurting them financially, with their sponsors etc.

I hope that Woman's Hour, among hours, talks to them. I hope they appear on many platforms as speakers.

As a non sport watcher, I don’t understand the video. Can someone explain what was happening?
Good for her.

At the start of a pool match the players hit a ball each to decide who goes first, bit like a coin toss.

Kim didn't hit her ball, then immediately forfeited the game and to begin with the other player doesn't seem to want to shake her hand, but then eventually does.

I applaud these principled women. I regret that they have to be the ones to lead this pushback because it must be hurting them financially, with their sponsors etc.

I agree. It was such a tough decision for Lynne Pinches to concede. The WEPF need to reconsider. They had it right the first time.
https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/24096071.norwich-pool-player-lynne-pinches-turns-contract/

Isn’t it the same male player? Surely that player will be known as the champion who didn’t actually win any championship through their skill but through forfeitures soon.

Maybe the pool federation will start actually taking notice?

"won the tournament by default"

It must be such a proud moment knowing that, when you look at your trophy on the mantelpiece.

It is the same male player yes

Kim O'Brien's site: https://www.misscue.co.uk/

https://notthebee.com/article/riley-gaines-prize-money-female-pool-player-rather-compete-against-man

Brava Kim!

And Riley Gains.

It is wrong that it had to go this way.

Can I ask why pool tournaments are gender specific? I don't understand the advantages of gender in this sport.
But no if it's a woman's competition it's for biological women.

"One of the concerns among critics like Pinches is that an opponent who was born male might have greater upper body strength, allowing a more powerful break shot at the start of the game, as well as a slight height and reach advantage which could prove pivotal on the table." (from the report)

BTW it is the advantages of sex in this sport (not gender)

There are no gender advantages.

There are sex advantages (reach is an obvious one, but there are others - including opportunity advantages as well as biological ones). Which is why it should be divided by sex.

I would like to think that this is engraved on the trophy.

This is so powerful. I hope it catches on. If the cheating males only ever win by default surely their sponsorship becomes at risk?

It is absolutely awful that it has come to this however. I blame the organisations and sponsors for letting this happen. Women shouldn't have to risk their livelihoods and actually, for a transwoman to be ok with competing like this, suggests a poor grasp of reality and they too are being let down by those around them.

The sex advantage in pool is interesting. The obvious one is that at population level, men are bigger and therefore have arms with a bigger span. Their hands are also bigger and stronger so not only is the break easier for them, it's also easier to take a shot on a tricky ball where you're having to stretch. I (a woman) like playing with a rest for that very reason. I use the rest far more often than DH.
But in addition to those obvious differences, at population level, men's heartbeat and breathing are slower, so they can remain more still while taking the pot.

Here is the English Pool Association champions table.
Look who is "Champion of Champions Ladies" for 2023.
It's just so wrong.
https://www.epa.org.uk/tournaments/champions.php#

Edited to say: and also "National Championship Ladies"

Women face lifelong disadvantage across all levels of society.

Physical body capability and potential is only a part of it.

If we're just thinking about sport, let's consider the girls who stop playing in their teens because of comments from boys; lack of proper sports bra; social expectation to look "beautiful" in school taking hours and money; the way outdoor play and sports spaces are designed for males and are intimidating to females; scared to train outdoors after dark; etc etc.

As women grow these challenges persist and new ones are added around workplace discrimination and caring responsibilities.

Haven't even touched on funding for female sport.

Also, you're a teenage girl. You don't have a pool table at home. Where do you play that you feel safe? Are you really going to go and bend over a table at your local pub or pool bar?

Interesting framing from the victor.

https://twitter.com/Riley_Gaines_/status/1763269559132344669

On the sex advantage issue from a commenter on X: (starts from https://twitter.com/OstinatoRigore4/status/1763411433369284840 )

Men have a massive advantage in pool, contrary to the beliefs of people who haven’t played seriously for years and watched men and women pros play in person, as I have. When I was 17, I had been playing for 1 year. I played a match with a women’s world champion and lost 5-3.

The woman with the all time hardest 9-ball break was clocked at about 25 mph. 90% of male pros can break at or above 25 mph. The hardest break among amateur men, where I played, was 31.6 mph, when we had a competition. That’s because the guy who hit one at 32.1 mph had his break disqualified, because the cue ball flew off the table.

I watched the owner of the same pool hall, who was an extremely good amateur, beat Ewa Laurence, in a race to 9. She is a former world 9 ball champion.

They had a mixed pro tour for a brief period. The highest ranking women never finished above somewhere around 60th place.

There are at least 2 men pros who have been witnessed to run more than 10 nine ball racks in a row. I’ve personally never seen a single woman pro get above 4 or 5 consecutive racks. Men amateurs who can run 4 consecutive racks aren’t a dime a dozen, but it’s fair to say they’re a quarter a dozen.

Same thing for high runs in straight pool. There are plenty of men pros who can get above 200 or 300. The middle of the pack women’s pros would have trouble getting to 50. I’m not sure that I’ve known of a world champion woman pro who even got to 150.

There might be one, but the point is I can pile on stats like this, one after another. 100% of the evidence points to the men having a definite and quite large advantage. If you played seriously for years, like I did, you don’t need stats. You just watch them play and it’s obvious that the men are much better.

I just googled it. Notice the massive list of men & how the highest high run on the women’s list is only 2 balls higher than the lowest on the men’s list. I read that Jennifer Chen’s high run may not be accurate either. Someone says it was only 100 or so.

http://hermund.ardalen.com/straightpoolhighruns.htm

Here is the results of a mixed tournament. Alison Fischer, Karen Corr, and Jasmine Ouschan are among the top 5 female pool players of all time. I rank them as being towards the upper end of the top 5. Look at how they ranked.

https://www.azbilliards.com/tournament/1461-ipt-world-open-8-ball-championship-2006/?action=results

Here, multiple times world champion Allison Fischer ranked 61st. By my recollection, this was the highest a woman pro ever finished on this mixed sex pool tour. It’s been forever so I could be wrong.

https://www.azbilliards.com/tournament/1446-ipt-north-american-open-championship-2006/?action=results

Here is a post with some links to break shots. Allison Fischer is not breaking as hard as she normally does, but still, look at the difference. The 4th one down had the hardest break in women’s professional pool. She’s a good one to compare to the men, on the 2nd and 3rd videos.

Anyone who thinks there is no advantage can refer to this example of professional women and professional men. The 4th one down is the woman pro who has the hardest break of all time among women pros. Compare her to the men.

Here is Alison Fischer, one of the top 4 female pool players in the history of the sport, breaking a rack of balls. She can break harder than this. I’ve seen her do it, but not all that much harder. Compare this to what is in the reply to this.

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Here is Jeffrey De Luna. Stats I just looked up on him say that in 2022, he was ranked 118th on a men’s pro tour. You will see the difference between his break and the one on the comment above this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=WxWqtHKy6Jy3wlMJ&v=iLDCnivOTS4&feature=youtu.be

Here’s one of the men pros with the hardest breaks. He’s a very high ranked player, but not considered the all time greatest the way that AF is by so many. Notice how the crowd of men is frightened by how hard he hits the ball. See the reply for the woman.

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Here is the woman who was hailed as having, by far, the hardest break in women’s professional pool. I’ve been out of the scene for years, so maybe someone has since topped her.

R.I.P. Helena “The sledgehammer” Thornfeldt

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Thank you.

https://twitter.com/UTOTALBELLEND/status/1763307911105655028?s=19

Thank you for the explanations. How interesting, the very measurable and evident sex differences in male and female snooker.

It's great that you are interested. The more people know about this the better. Pool and women's snooker don't get a lot of media attention. These women are amazing to have stuck to their principles and walked away at such a cost to themselves. Imagine getting to the peak of your sport and then having the guts to say "Nah. Keep it. I don't think it's fair".

Amazing, Kim. Am so angry that it is necessary.

Thank you Kim O'brien.