Advice of one transwoman changed rules in single sex social organisation

[Ladiescircler]

I'm a member of Ladies Circle (yes the name is a bit stupid but that's not the point) Most of you won't have heard of it, there is a female equivalent to Roundtable. A organisation for Women and round table is for Men.

The basic principle is socialising with woman in you local area and if you want doing some things for charity like Fireworks or Santa Floats.

I joined when I didn't know anyone in the local area and it's been brilliant I've made loads of friends and done things I wouldn't normally plus had fun helping at fireworks.

It's great to socialise with just women and the dynamics would be totally different if it was mixed sex.

A while back there was some talk of allowing all women however they identify in, recently the national council released a Belief statement when it became clear they are allowing self ID.

Here's the statement:
GENDER
Ladies Circle GB&I is open to everyone ages 18-45 who identifies as being, or lives as
female. This includes people who are cisgender, transgender, and those assigned female at
birth who are nonbinary.
…POLITICS
Ladies Circle GB&I is a non-political association.
That said, we do occasionally get involved in campaigning on issues that affect women. In
the past this included prevention of cervical cancer, reduction in VAT on sanitary industry
and the Women’s National Commission.

Each local Circle where asked to discuss the belief statement and feedback our group feedback gave mixed feedback some for some against.

What is interesting is that they have since clarified where the advice came from and it's a roundtable male that transitioned and set up an EDI company so on the advice of one person they are altering a single sex organisation to mixed sex.

They may as well change the name to People Circle 🫣

Anyway it's really pissed me off today so I thought I'd share.

Title and OP edited by MNHQ to remove terms that broke our Talk Guidelines

This is the real transphobia. Men who don't want other men to dress like weirdos. So other men decide the man who doesn't fit has to go bother the women and leave the manly men alone. All the men view women as just a heap pile to dump their untouchables on.

Well might be time for me to join them! I have a male job and I'm way more ruthless than the men I work with.

@Datun they've already been told that it seems that they've decided they are on the right side and that's it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks as they are good people and being kind 🙄

My chair has had an email response to some questions so I'll feedback when I know more.

When I say a male job I mean I work in male dominated industry. I'm often the only woman in the room.

Are you really that bothered that Ladies Circle is trans inclusive?

Are you really that bothered that Ladies Circle is trans inclusive?

Why wouldn't she be? It's a group for women. Joanne is not a woman. Joanne has been in the men's organisation for years and years, and suddenly decides he's a woman, and hey presto- the women's organisation suddenly bends over backwards to change it's rules to accommodate him. Ladies' Circle would be trans inclusive by including transmen, if course.

Yes actually I am having been party to very poor behaviour from males no matter how they identified, our group with even one male would be a different thing entirely.

I also know women that wouldn't attend a group either because of religious or personal reasons if a group is mixed sex.

It's also the principle of it, the executive are supposed to put to vote all rule changes but haven't with this one!

It’s like Groundhog Day with @DadJoke

Too right. This social contagion has gone a little to far.

Why do you have an opinion about this? This isn't something that even affects you. Yet you have to bully women who might want a ladies only group because they are fully aware that the second a man walks in the mood changes and the demands start.

Women are not support humans.

This is it exactly

Can you force a vote? Surely this is a procedural thing and leadership could be removed?

To be clear, 99.99% of men give zero fucks how someone dresses or if they have make up. Generally they don’t notice or care. They do however care about their daughters, wives and mothers being safe from men. Mainly because they know what men are capable of.

Why shouldn’t she be? If you join a women-only group and the organisers then let men in, the dynamic has fundamentally changed. Obviously.

From their website: Ladies Circle was originally created for individuals who identify as female between the ages of 18 and 45,

I bet you anything you like that it wasn’t, given that it was founded some time before 1936. The lies just flow so naturally …

I didn’t express an opinion. If I had expressed an opinion, it wouldn’t be bullying - you aren’t delicate flowers.

it affects my LGBT and gender non-conforming friends and colleagues.

‘Our name, SEE Change Happen, originated from our mantra: SMILE, ENGAGE, and EDUCATE. We’ve seen how those three actions really do create a positive change, causing a ripple effect from the workplace into home and society. Because embedding an equal and inclusive culture helps everyone become more accepting of people’s differences.’
this is from the website. Somewhat worrying phrasing !
The company seems to comprise of Joanne Lockwood and his chum. Bet Mr Lockwood is having a great time.

it affects my LGBT and gender non-conforming friends and colleagues

How does it affect your gay male friends, your lesbian friends or any gender non-conforming male or female friends and colleagues?

Gay men aren’t eligible any more than heterosexual men are, lesbians are welcome if they’re in the correct age bracket and you’d probably need to define gender non conforming- although any gender non conforming woman would, again, be welcome.

So as you mean it affects the transwomen you know you may as well just say that.

Are you really that bothered that women have something that excludes men?

as always with DJ we know that yes! Yes you are. You cannot bear for women to have anything for themselves.

Our chair had an email back from the executive basically stating it's not a done deal but then a sentence about diversity.

It seems to me that it's a done deal when you change the website. I'll point that out!

I think this is becoming more and more clear. We have no evidence that TW are at risk in male single sex spaces, not one single publicly-recorded incident. And quite a few recorded instances of women and children being harmed by males of any identity in female single sex spaces.

So forcing males of special identity into female spaces worked really well for a long time, using our female socialisation and shaming us to #bekind to people who were marginalised and vulnerable™ worked (not as a way to get our consent before it happened, obviously, not like we actually matter enough to be consulted, but as a way to keep us compliant after it was already happening).

And now it's not working so well. Because more and more people are aware of the issue and are becoming aware of exactly who is vulnerable, and who is being harmed, by changing women's spaces to mixed spaces for a sacred caste. No debate is dead,.and it sounds like Ladies Circle and Joanne are a bit behind on that but are now finding it out.

it affects my LGBT and gender non-conforming friends and colleagues

I'm gender non confirming (although probably not in the way you mean) and it would piss me right off if I joined a women's group that allowed males in.

Why doesn’t that matter?

Probably your lesbian friends would be delighted to be able to have a space that is free from males - so it does affect them only not in the way you're trying to suggest. Unless you mean special male lesbians?

Forward info to sex-matters.org/

I actually agree with the age thing - and I’m on the wrong side of it. These types of associations are often mostly older women with time on their hands and who have known everyone local forever, young women do need to be encouraged to find their space and friends too. Which makes the mixed sex thing all the more awful

Which makes me ask the question about the older women’s circle (whatever it’s called) - is that now also mixed sex?

Good point I will go check it's called Tangent, I've contacted sex matters so we shall see.

I've also told our chair about the website change.