Young Again - Grayson Perry

[Throughahedgebackwards]

Just listened to this on R4 and found it fascinating. Whatever your views on Grayson Perry more generally, I found him really Kirsty Young definitely gets it. Worth a listen - first 10 minutes or so in particular is really quite terfy.

I thought they danced around the 'trans issue' delicately.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001wqf2?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Yes, but in a way that left little doubt what they thought about it.

Yes, he is quite terfy and has been openly critiquing of gender ideology for years. Quite a brave thing to do in the art world, but he's in a unique position to stave off "allies" who would happily go after anyone they'd not already bracketed under the trans umbrella.

This Grayson Perry - 'the reasonable face of AGP' like Hayton?

I thought that while there was a very light touch, it was very clearly against trans ideology.
What I liked in particular was his absolute honesty. 'I am a man... My dresses don't have room for bosoms (!) ... I'm a man who wears dresses'.
Without using the word 'trans', he also repeated the word 'reductive' when talking about stereotypes and in the same context said 'there's none so sexist as a transvestite'. He stated that he is a 'pervert' and linked that in with male sexuality.
I'm sure that some who are understandably exhausted by and furious about the unutterable shit show going on at the moment will have a less positive take about some aspects.
But my view was that this was merfy; that it was a good thing that the trans issue was dealt with 'lightly' and from a completely different perspective - because I think that attacking trans ideology from numerous angles is a good thing; and that it successfully trod a very difficult path between libertarianism (they did touch on people being uncomfortable with men in dress-up because of knowing about the sexual fetishism of some) and absolute honesty about biological reality.
He consistently made it absolutely clear that he's a man, and that 'Claire' isn't an identity but a shorthand for 'today I'm a man in a dress' rather than a man in other clothes, and nothing more than that (without saying it out loud, it was a clear repudiation of the Eddie Izzard type take on it)

I like Grayson Perry's honesty and self reflection. He comes across as warm, funny, generous and intelligent... even if he does seem to have a very male sense of entitlement, too. I think he's extremely interesting - one of the few well-known people I'd give my eye teeth to have a proper conversation with. I thought it was good that they broached, however delicately, the topic of fetish that involves unconsenting members of the public. Couldn't imagine that conversation happening 5 years ago.

He plays out his fetish in public. For that alone I can’t stand him, he gave me the creeps when I saw him in the flesh a good few years ago.

I listened to that just now and I did enjoy it. I like his ‘punk’ side and can relate to his desire for subversion, but I can’t work out how I feel about his lack of shame. It feels so much like male privilege. As women, we are shamed from so early on, to some degree, for having female bodies, but for him, as a man, it is a source of erotic pleasure to feel embarrassed and ashamed. And his unabashed acknowledgment of his darker side - admitting enjoying the lack of consent - of using others as props in his public exploration of his fetish, it feels like male entitlement - his lack of contrition.

Also I can’t help wondering about his radfem art college contemporaries. He felt it was a chance to explore wearing whatever you like (feminist women doing the work of breaking down gender stereotypes), and no one cared. Yet at the same time he admitted that exploring the same sex stereotypes those radfems felt oppressed by wanted to be liberated from, were the very thing he got a thrill out of adopting. It does feel like somehow taking the piss out of the feminists and getting off on it, right under their noses, but acting like they are all in the gender subversion thing together.

It’s always thought-provoking listening to him, but I can’t help thinking “you’re getting away with it you cheeky little fucker” - yet feeling fond.

He's not brave, though. If he was brave, he'd have stood up for ceramicist Claudia Clare when she was being bullied by transactivists. He chose to remain silent.

The more honest face, at least.

Grayson Perry revolts me and I hate how he is lauded for performing his fetish. However, I am glad that he is open about the AGP nature of trans. I wish more men were and the world at large (policy makers, politicians, public figures) would see it for what it really is.

@MalcolmTuckersSwearBox oh I think loads of them do see it as it is and just think what of it? My past line of work(child safeguarding/women has taught me that not all of us have the same boundaries/morality. Disturbing isn't it? Why I quit tbh.

What is GP standing in front of? It looks like a children's cancer poster. What a sight to see when having to take your child to a cancer clinic/hospital.

I have just listened to this podcast and thought there must be a thread on it!

I'm actually fairly shocked about the open discussion and so impressed that Kirsty asked this stuff about the sexual nature of cross dressing and the lack of consent from others. Plus so good to hear Grayson say that the trans movement is 'reductive' and 'magical thinking'. I don't know why this hasn't been picked up more!

There's another thread on it with a transcript.

The poster is of a children's cancer charity fundraising event.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5020672-grayson-perry-and-kirsty-young-speaking-sense

I hate how he's allowed to perfoŕm his fetish on TV. It's similar to how other man are allowed to perform their 'being a woman' fetish in public. Maybe its because they aren't dressed in a typical porn shoot way, we are lead to believe its doing no harm?

He's very charming, and always comes across as kind and encouraging about others art, so i think his personality allows him to get away with more, i think.

He may not be taken in by gender and queer ideology, but he is using it and promoting it by moving the acceptable lines about performing fetishes in public.