Schools Guidance Consultation closes 12 of March - can we collate ideas for responding?

[ValancyRedfern]

Hi All,

I'm concerned people (including myself!) may lost track of time and forget to respond to the schools guidance. I thought it would be useful to create a thread collating and discussing ideas for responding. I know there are still some response guides to come from SSA and Sex Matters. I'm posting in a rush right now but I will be back with any links I can find. This is so important as all the Usual Suspects will be responding, and many Unions, charities, MATs and individual schools are currently saying this is only draft guidance so can and should be ignored. We need to ensure our voices are heard.

Link to consultation:

https://consult.education.gov.uk/equalities-political-impartiality-anti-bullying-team/gender-questioning-children-proposed-guidance/

Link to draft guidance:

https://consult.education.gov.uk/equalities-political-impartiality-anti-bullying-team/gender-questioning-children-proposed-guidance/supporting_documents/Gender%20Questioning%20Children%20%20nonstatutory%20guidance.pdf

Response Guidance from Sex Matters:

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/responding-to-the-schools-guidance-consultation/

Report Card from Sex Matters:

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/dfes-schools-guidance-the-report-card/

Thanks for starting this thread. I intend to start it next week, I'm hoping they'll be more responses shared.

The guidance is an improvement on current situation.
1- Stonewall's draft response (linked on sex matters website) recommends any girl who doesn't consent to get undressed with the opposite sex should be excluded from the girls changing room- not the boy who wants to be there without female consent! Punishing girls for sexual / bodily boundaries from males , whatever their religious belief. (3rd spaces...)

2- Stonewall also want to enforce the mis sexing of males whatever the human rights breaches (privacy, dignity, safety for girls and free speech and belief of all) and safeguarding impact. Some school policies currently actively target children who recognise sex is real for punishment- eg Church of England schools follow the Church's 'VAGC' policy (says anyone who won't pretend/ use wrong sex pronouns is a bully).

It's especially cruel to Child victims of male abuse who recognise reality/ children of transpeople (who have legal rights to correctly refer to their parents). .. and increases risk to other children-remember that little girl in Scotland who got into her abuser's car as she'd been taught if a man says he's a woman he's safe? (The Amy/ Andrew Miller case). And the other girl bullied for challenging Stonewall stuff https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10839993/Girl-18-forced-private-school-transphobia-row-thanks-JK-Rowling-supporting-her.html

So the government need to produce a draft EIA (equality impact assessment) to protect all these children, not just those who are gender distressed, otherwise schools will ignore them.

Several trans lobby groups and teachers have said online schools should ignore the guidance as it's non statutory. So needs to have legal impact and punishment too.

Thank you for this. Just placemarking so that I don't lose track.

Placemarking - a job for this week.

The stonewall suggestions are unsurprising, but it's still shocking to see it put out there. Surely anyone working in a secondary school will by now have seen umpteen children go through umpteen iterations of their gender identity, particularly if they get any updates on what they do after they leave. (I know of several 'trans' kids who discreetly reverted to their previous name and pronouns when moving on to college or uni.) The idea that when child announces a new gender they're revealing some stable inner truth surely just looks ridiculous?

Also placemarking - happy to share points.So important that parents re heard about this.

Another one placemarking. I agree with SM's high level comments about the guidance being too vague and that a model policy should be provided by DfE.

I don't think there are any circumstances where schools can or should be socially transitioning a child and I will be making that clear in my response.

The reason for this is that it is actually everyone else that has to do the 'social transition'.

No child should be asked to use wrong sex pronouns for another pupil or for a teacher or member or staff.

Children should be free to have the interests, hobbies and fashion tastes (within the uniform policy) that they wish but it is utterly ridiculous that we are even contemplating when and why it might be appropriate to pretend that a boy is a girl or vice versa.

The two articles linked to here might be worth making notes from and getting the points across in answers to the consultation questions:

Gender affirmation and social transition - Transgender Trend

And if you want to know how Mermaids and Stonewall are advising school pupils to fill this out - just for balance I hasten to add - check out the Instagram account s3xtheorywithdee - there’s a video/reel near the top where this ‘sex educator’ goes through the gender guidance consultation form, question by question. This non-binary person also set up the Instagram hashtag ‘TransKidsDeserveToGrowUp’ and visited parliament with Kate Osborne to discuss all things LGBTQI++ on the first ‘all trans’ advisory panel. It’s interesting to hear the steer they’re getting too.

We need to point out that none of the RSE / pshe guidance is in line with what they're proposing. quite the opposite actually. And some tweaks in KCSIE.

So all that will need revising.

Non binary is as bad as many girls/ women are binding/ getting mastectomies and it gives men a free pass to women's spaces.

I know of a non binary adult who entered for both of the sexed positions in an org. The whole point of the positions is to ensure balance of sexes. Non binary appeared to mean she could volunteer for either. It would have been the same if a male.

Such an important point. There's a lot of reverse ferreting going on (Ofsted dumping Stonewall and ignoring / forgetting their previous demands that schools teach about gender identity) etc as the full horrors of social contagion and harm have become apparent. But that's OK - the golden bridge is open and busy.

If it's ok, I'll dip into this thread and each time post an extract or two from the Sex Matters draft response to keep this thread fairly active.

I don't think Sex Matters necessarily have all the points covered but they are the only ones to have published a response at the moment.

The structure should start with the standard policies that apply to ALL CHILDREN before considering what schools should do to accommodate children who are experiencing gender-related distress.

Any discussion of potential exceptions that go beyond the usual provisions that apply to boys or girls should [...] be framed in terms of accommodations to ensure that a child who is experiencing difficulties is able to access education, not “social transition”.

There is some potentially useful discussion going on at this thread about the issues with children understanding transgenderism that could be relevant for responding to the guidance.

Page 9 | My son can tell... | Mumsnet

For me, the guidance is as much (if not more) about the whole school population, teachers included, as it is about the few confused children who are seeking adjustments to be made for them in school.

One particularly useful comment (IMO) from the thread is as follows, with thanks to @akkakk

"...is that not of itself an indication as to how serious this has become that a child who speaks the truth could be punished or 'face a world of hurt'

the only we that we will keep truth central to our society is for all decent people to defend it...

and no, that doesn't mean that the trans community are not decent people - there will always be people who 'feel' more masculine or 'feminine', who feel body dysphoria, who are confused over what they really are - they are the community we should support and help to live a great life - ideally society should be helping them to come to terms with that disconnect and find ways to live as the sex they were born but the shape of man or woman they want to be...

that is totally different to those who impose this on the rest of society, who threaten, degrade and impose on others - none of that is part of a 'decent society' we need to stand up against lies and mis-truths, against those who twist words, change meanings, who gaslight and threaten, who pervert decency and corrupt others, those who abuse and minimise their actions...

if you have a boy who claims to be a girl - that is not the truth, they can't be, never can be, so someone else referring to them as a boy is simply speaking the truth and we must support and enable that in schools, media and society generally.

If you have a teacher who is male but pretending to be female, that is not living a truth - it is a safeguarding issue, and while there may be accommodations to allow it to take place, any comeback on pupils who refer to them truthfully as male is a step too far

so yes, there may be a 'world of hurt' but that is a threat -"if you don't join me in supporting / sharing / telling my lie to others I will make sure you face a world of hurt"- is that acceptable behaviour from e.g. a teacher? Surely any teacher who said anything like that in any other way would be instantly suspended and face disciplinary charges - we must not have dual standards...

so yes - that may be the outcome, but we should not shy away from the truth and the more that adults tell children the truth and support them in the truth, the easier it will become - and the better society will be...

Transgender Trend's addition:

www.transgendertrend.com/gender-questioning-children-consultation-response/

Wow to that TT response! It's fantastic! So many outstanding sections but the first is the key - that the guidance must be based on the normal expectations, standards and duties that are expected from schools:

"Safeguarding: schools must adopt a safeguarding first approach, every child must be treated within the normal safeguarding framework, no child is an exception; including working together with parents.
Purpose of schools: as establishments of education and learning, schools are expected to teach children facts, promote learning and foster critical thinking.
Equality: schools must consider the rights and protections of all groups of children, there is no hierarchy of rights.
Welfare: best interests of every child must be served, no toleration of bullying; respect and ethos of school.
Rules, policies and regulations: importance of clear and fair rules that everyone understands, creating security"

This is perfect. We've allowed transactivists to impose queer theory on schools (and society) so the draft is written from the distorted position of addressing the demands of individuals, activist pressure groups etc and seeing how the schools can accommodate them. Which is upside down

We need to return to the core values of schools which focus around all children, their needs and society. The TT suggestions use this and then reframe the guidance from the perspective of the school and children - such a healthy perspective.

Sorry for the lengthy post but it's really worth reading before sending in our own responses - and such a relief (but not a surprise) to see this intelligent child centred response.

Totally agree @MrsOvertonsWindow

The following are variations on a theme that jumped out to me upon my first reading:

"...the draft version is not strong enough to change the present situation of schools where activist teachers or parents have been permitted to dictate policies, and will continue to put pressure on schools to make exceptions while the Dept for Education permits this".

"The guidance leaves loopholes that will be exploited for ideological or political reasons. The pressure on ordinary teachers to ‘affirm a child’s gender identity’ and support them to ‘transition’ is overwhelming. These teachers need greater support from the Dept for Education".

"Clear guidance is needed so that this option ['social transition'] is off the table for schools. This is the only way to protect schools from endless negotiation, demands and complaints from parents. There should be no expectation from parents that the school has a duty to treat their child as the opposite sex".

Such good points @Leafstamp. It's vital that the DfE / government are made to take responsibility for these guidelines. Trans lobby groups have and will continue to exploit and threaten individual schools.
The DfE have openly promoted and funded transactivism in schools ignoring all warnings about the safeguarding nightmare that's been unleashed on children. They need to take responsibility.

Just leaving a thought here - is there a reminder that schools must by law be politically impartial in the draft? As that's at the route of the ideological pressure on schools.
Reminding schools of this and clarifying that an organisation campaigning for the removal of women's sport, the removal of sex segregated showers, changing rooms sleeping accommodation, campaigning against government draft guidance! is a political activist organisation and thus access to children must be restricted to being part of a balanced curriculum.

I've just done a quick search and the closest I can find is the following:

"If and where any change has been agreed, the school or college should communicate this to other pupils and staff where it is necessary and proportionate to do so. This should be done sensitively, without implying contested views around gender identity are fact. Other pupils, parents and teachers may hold protected religious or other beliefs that conflict with the decision that the school or college has made, these are legitimate views that must be respected"

What is good about the draft guidance is that it clearly states that:

Gender identity is a contested belief. 👏

Just picking out a couple of other key points from Transgender Trend's response:

"Lying to a child about their sex and concealing a person’s sex from children undermines safeguarding at the most fundamental level."

Isn't there a glaring omission in the guidance in the form of lying to a child about their teacher's sex?

I think there needs to be something in the guidance to state that children must not be asked, and certainly not compelled, to call a male teacher 'Miss' or a female teacher 'Mr'. Telling children their teacher is non-binary and they must call him or her 'Mx' is no better either.

I agree Leafstamp . But I think that this is the first stage and given the legal complexities as to how much gender reassignment applies to children (3 year olds, 8, 11, 14 etc? (which has never been tested in the courts) it seems pragmatic to start with safeguarding children first.
Once you start tackling the gaslighting of children by adults there'll be a whole swathe of new issues to consider?

Yes, you're right. I can see why it's pragmatic and first priority to safeguard children. Hopefully more people (including teachers) will start joining the dots on all of this. Ie that the entirety of gender identity ideology is a safeguarding nightmare and should be no where near anything in society schools.

Today in the Lords, the DfE Lords Minister:

"Schools are expected to consider all the guidance from the department, and this is no exception: we would expect them to follow the final published guidance"

And:

"all our non-statutory guidance seeks to support schools in their statutory obligations, where the safety and well-being of the child are paramount."

And:

"our expectation is that schools...will comply with the guidance...we will make sure that our statutory safeguarding guidance is completely aligned with this non-statutory guidance"

And parts of Kemi's WESC letter were quoted too, so are in Hansard:

"My right honourable friend the Minister for Women and Equalities, in her letter to the Women and Equalities Select Committee, wrote that

“studies have found a link between gender non-conformity in childhood and someone later coming out as gay”,

and certainly that

“A young person and their family may notice that they are gender non-conforming earlier than they are aware of their developing sexual orientation. If gender non-conformity is misinterpreted as evidence of being transgender … the child may not have had a chance to identify, come to terms with or explore a same-sex orientation”."

hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2024-02-22/debates/C09385A4-8F5E-4D2D-9BEB-7909D1AE1B6B/SchoolsGender-QuestioningChildren

Thanks for that @ResisterRex

Re the para below, given that it’s not unusual for people to only become fully aware of their sexuality when they are adults then we really should not indulge any child who thinks they are transgender. (Obvs there are other reasons why it’s a bad idea too, but just on this alone).

“A young person and their family may notice that they are gender non-conforming earlier than they are aware of their developing sexual orientation. If gender non-conformity is misinterpreted as evidence of being transgender … the child may not have had a chance to identify, come to terms with or explore a same-sex orientation”."