Does anyone actually fully support trans people in women's changing rooms and loos?

[bottomsup12]

Just curious really? I see a lot of aggressive stances (Owen Jones eg) pro this on twitter etc. I don't get it.
The only reason I can think of is that it's never actually happened to them and they imagine it will be fine but when it actually happens a few times they might start seeing sense?

For the men who are aggressively pro it I wonder how they would feel is women just started flooding into their changing rooms and bathrooms ?

Agree @RainWithSunnySpells
It's textbook TRA

I don't want to be in an isolated space with my knickers down around male strangers. It's unsafe and intimidating. We deserve to feel safe and I don't.

@PP82

But male visitors are allowed to be on the maternity ward all day anyway. Or do such humiliating incidents only happen overnight?

And why is such a thing happening in front of a strange man any worse than in front of a strange woman?

Your lack of empathy is astounding. Genuinely.

I'm sorry you're having a painful fertility journey.

I'm afraid however that due to your total absence of empathy and your stark (frankly odd) refusal to even acknowledge let alone take on board the direct experiences of women who have gone through labour and post partum recovery, you will only acknowledge these issues if and when you go though them yourself.

I can't imagine multiple people telling me something is upsetting, difficult and humiliating and essentially saying "well why?"

If you didn't sound so naive and ignorant I would be asking how dare you, but I don't think it's worth it now tbh.

@PP82

And why is such a thing happening in front of a strange man any worse than in front of a strange woman?

You wrote this about maternity aftercare spaces.

Yet you believe that for now, when it comes to single sex toilets, trans women should be permitted to choose to use the women's toilets. Is that correct?

Why is it so bad for them to have to use the male toilet? Why is that any worse than using the women's toilet? You are astonished at natal women living in fear of men etc.

Why do you validate trans women's discomfort / fear around sharing spaces with natal men, but dismiss the discomfort / fear of natal women about sharing spaces with natal men?

You'll say gender neutral bathrooms are the answer but in the meantime, why is it that you think trans women's comfort should be prioritised over natal women's comfort?

I find it amusing that you think no one with attitudes you don't like could have worked on a maternity unit. I can assure you every word I've said is true. If I told you my role you'd probably explode lol.

No. I do not support it.
Considerate trans women don’t either.

I find it amusing that you think no one with attitudes you don't like could have worked on a maternity unit. I can assure you every word I've said is true. If I told you my role you'd probably explode lol.

It seems like you're proud of having zero empathy. There's probably a term for that.

@PP82 well thankfully you don't work there any more. It has left you with zero empathy for women in states of discomfort or distress.
"lol" 🙄

Cross-posted with @Ereshkigalangcleg
The lack of empathy shines through. If ever there was a job you weren't suited to, it was that one.

Um, no, they aren’t. They have 2 x 2hr visiting sessions, during which patients are not being seen by nurses/staff and are not, therefore, as vulnerable. And yes, a ward full of visitors during daytime is far less likely to provide opportunities for assaults that dimmed, wards do.

And for context, when I was in labour with my first, a woman in labour in the next suite had the police arrive while we were there. The husband had DV charges against him and had got violent with staff - he was arrested and eventually removed. Hospitals attract people from all walks of life. Criminals, sex offenders, drug addicts and paedophiles also have relationships and babies. That’s the real world not a jaded, neurotic fear of strange men. Being in labour or post-partum with a fragile new born is when a woman is at her most vulnerable.

That you don’t recognise or respect this makes you a rather unpleasant person. Am so glad our NHS has been relieved of your services.

Is your 'roll' scaring Billy-Goats?

Claim dads aren’t allowed all hours on maternity wards is incorrect.

See thread entitled
petition going around about dads in hospital

Many MNs on there clearly stating in their hospitals dads are allowed 24/7. Ours does too

I'm beginning to wonder whether it's somehow 'bad actors' pushing this stuff. I don't yet own a tinfoil hat and perhaps I should make myself one, but I honestly can't see how most of these people can genuinely believe the kind of illogical, nonsensical, overly aggressive utter tripe they come out with.
So perhaps people like Owen Jones and Billy Bragg - who maybe would be 'incels' if they didn't identify as left-wing - believe it; but the random 100s of mad people shouting on X, I just don't believe that there are that many people so bereft of both brain and feeling.
Or maybe I'm just very naive and lots of people (including many women) really do absolutely hate women.

Having done a quick check - it seems to vary across hospitals. Some only allow birth partners between 10am-9pm and ask them to leave during ‘quiet time’, others already allow overnight stays for birthing partner. Think the inconsistency may be an issue that needs addressing as policy is decided at a local level.

You've worked on a UK maternity ward, and yet you can't see why there might be safeguarding issues to allowing male visitor access 24/7, @PP82 ?

Was this role painting the walls before the ward opened, or something?

I'm still waiting for the clarification about the 99% live birth rate for IVF in Spain (as opposed to the 99% viable egg harvest chart you posted upthread) - this is still misinformation left standing as far as I can see.

Agree it varies.
It also sometimes depends on what the ward sister prefers.

We usually had to have a security guard on the door, such were the safeguarding concerns at that particular hospital.

We usually had to have a security guard on the door, such were the safeguarding concerns at that particular hospital.

What were the safeguarding concerns?

The package I'm planning on is take a live baby home after 3 cycles of donor egg IVF or your money back. Such packages are fairly standard here. Lots of people seem not to understand the difference between donor egg and own egg IVF.

All the standard ones you'd expect in an inner city hospital.

I've never worked at an inner city hospital. Why don't you tell me what the safeguarding concerns were in your particular hospital? And why a security guard was needed?

If I knew my presence somewhere made other rightful users feel uncomfortable I would feel awful and would seek to not upset people by sodding off. I think the vast majority of women would feel the same. That’s why I can’t understand this aggressive desire to muscle in where you know you are not wanted.

@PP82

‘The package’
‘Taking a live baby’
Jesus Christ this is fcked up.

Lots of people seem not to understand the difference between donor egg and own egg IVF.

One of them is my genetic offspring, the other one isn't.
For one, I would carry all associated risks myself, for the other I would pay money for another, possibly destitute, woman to carry the risk of egg harvest.
I'm sure there's more.