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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

NHS directs teenagers to 'Tranzwiki' that links to 'Trans Bare All' website

53 replies

ArabellaScott · 14/02/2024 20:44

This NHS page is for 'gender confused' teenagers:

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/trans-teenager/

The first external link is to 'tranzwiki'

'You can find charities and support groups on the Tranzwiki page on the Gender Identity Research & Education website.'

https://archive.is/xRdV6#selection-1337.0-1337.16

The 'tranzwiki' includes links to various groups for trans identifying people, including:

'Trans Bare all'

'As one of the founding principles of TBA is around supporting body confidence, our events include naked space in which everyone present is welcome to wear as little or as much clothing as they feel comfortable in. As Lee has described, “We found that when people took their clothes off, the conversations changed. Because they had already bared their physical self, they were more open to baring other stuff as well.”'

https://www.transbareall.co.uk/weekends

nhs.uk

Worried about your gender identity? Advice for teenagers

Find out what support is available on the NHS if you're worried about your gender identity.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/trans-teenager

OP posts:
Original poster
ArabellaScott · 15/02/2024 07:24

ANameChangePresents · 15/02/2024 07:13

What's the best route for complaining? There must be some way to offer feedback that will be seen by personnel who have not been captured.

Daily Mail.

Joking. Sort of.

The rot in the NHS must go right through. It's not even a question of taking down one page; I'd like to know who found this link and checked it and decided it was suitable for children/teens?

We need an enquiry.

OP posts:
UltraLiteLife · 15/02/2024 08:08

Lumping all 'trans' people into a list like this destroys the boundaries between, for example, middle aged cross dressing men and young females having naked events.

Those boundaries are important. They are there to protect people. Vulnerable teens need careful support, not throwing to the arms of any random organisation that has 'trans' on the labe

I had strong vibes of Ben GNC.

Ben GNC Centric is a lesbian and previously identified as transgender. In this interview with Benjamin Boyce, she highlights important issues (based on her experiences) within the community when the relevance of age, sex and their attendant power asymmetries are disregarded in a frankly disturbing way that recalls Sheila Jeffreys and her work on sex castes. (Middleaged transwomen led and spoke over them at 'youth gatherings' and told them to shut up and listen because transwomen are the apex of the oppression hierarchy, and teenage transboys are somehow at the bottom. Morgan Page was a leader of a youth group Ben attended.)

4thwavenow.com/2019/01/26/my-trans-youth-group-experience-with-morgan-page/

'Coercion & Abuse in the Gender ID Community'

14 Mar 2019

Froodwithatowel · 15/02/2024 08:09

It's interesting isn't it. Those advocating for 'annihilating sex boundaries' always have linked views that involve putting children in fantastically and obviously unsafe and exploitative situations, and having zero awareness of even basic safeguarding.

And anyone pointing out issues is being mean and is met with a torrent of insults and rage.

pickledandpuzzled · 15/02/2024 09:07

ArabellaScott · 14/02/2024 21:26

Transwiki also links to an old magazine that contains accounts from various 'trans' identifying people.

Including this one:

https://archive.ph/7aPE9

'When puberty, with a very limited knowledge of the facts of life occurred, I was still relatively OK with my developing manhood. The only thing which marked me out as different was a vague wish to have a female body and a desire to dress in female attire. I was brought up in a very puritanical Christian household, had only brothers and my mother was in her fifties by this time. She was several stones overweight and rather old fashioned in her taste in clothing (Sorry Mum!) I had few opportunities to experiment with women's clothes, but when I did found the experience arousing. I was very ashamed of this little peccadillo of mine. As masturbation was a sin, then what must it be if I found myself aroused by the ridiculous reflection in a mirror of a skinny teenager in old fashioned female clothes that were big enough to wrap around me twice???
...
I never admitted it to anyone. Later on my wife never knew that at times I "borrowed" her clothes. She did not know that many of the pieces of lingerie that I bought her would occasionally adorn my body, not just hers.'
...
'It was not until I became a father that I had the tiniest glimmerings of other things not being quite right. Many fathers are jealous of the relationship between mother and child, but I was jealous, not so much of the fact that the relationship existed, but more that right from the beginning my relationship with my children was different from hers. I wanted that bonding. In short I wanted to be their mother. So feeling guilty about this I tried extra hard to be the good husband and father. Still occasionally cross-dressing when the coast was clear.'

This has Narc dripping from it.

The amazing insights he discovers, other people merely existing to support or undermine his experience. The self conscious writing style.

Doesn’t anyone notice and wonder if it’s a good look for the organisation? Transgression etc.

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 15/02/2024 09:15

The 'gendy' network linked to had articles from Stephen Whittle and Christine Burns etc, some stuff going back to 1990.

OP posts:
breakfastdinnerandtea · 15/02/2024 09:30

ArabellaScott · 14/02/2024 21:26

Transwiki also links to an old magazine that contains accounts from various 'trans' identifying people.

Including this one:

https://archive.ph/7aPE9

'When puberty, with a very limited knowledge of the facts of life occurred, I was still relatively OK with my developing manhood. The only thing which marked me out as different was a vague wish to have a female body and a desire to dress in female attire. I was brought up in a very puritanical Christian household, had only brothers and my mother was in her fifties by this time. She was several stones overweight and rather old fashioned in her taste in clothing (Sorry Mum!) I had few opportunities to experiment with women's clothes, but when I did found the experience arousing. I was very ashamed of this little peccadillo of mine. As masturbation was a sin, then what must it be if I found myself aroused by the ridiculous reflection in a mirror of a skinny teenager in old fashioned female clothes that were big enough to wrap around me twice???
...
I never admitted it to anyone. Later on my wife never knew that at times I "borrowed" her clothes. She did not know that many of the pieces of lingerie that I bought her would occasionally adorn my body, not just hers.'
...
'It was not until I became a father that I had the tiniest glimmerings of other things not being quite right. Many fathers are jealous of the relationship between mother and child, but I was jealous, not so much of the fact that the relationship existed, but more that right from the beginning my relationship with my children was different from hers. I wanted that bonding. In short I wanted to be their mother. So feeling guilty about this I tried extra hard to be the good husband and father. Still occasionally cross-dressing when the coast was clear.'

Am I a peculiar type of woman who isn't turned on by looking at themselves wearing women's clothes in the mirror? I can't say I've ever put any clothes on and felt aroused at looking at myself.

And, let me get this straight...? There's an organisation who have events where trans teenagers are encouraged to strip off to nothing? Who are the actual people organising these things? How have they not been arrested?

Dogfisher · 15/02/2024 10:15

ArabellaScott · 14/02/2024 21:26

Transwiki also links to an old magazine that contains accounts from various 'trans' identifying people.

Including this one:

https://archive.ph/7aPE9

'When puberty, with a very limited knowledge of the facts of life occurred, I was still relatively OK with my developing manhood. The only thing which marked me out as different was a vague wish to have a female body and a desire to dress in female attire. I was brought up in a very puritanical Christian household, had only brothers and my mother was in her fifties by this time. She was several stones overweight and rather old fashioned in her taste in clothing (Sorry Mum!) I had few opportunities to experiment with women's clothes, but when I did found the experience arousing. I was very ashamed of this little peccadillo of mine. As masturbation was a sin, then what must it be if I found myself aroused by the ridiculous reflection in a mirror of a skinny teenager in old fashioned female clothes that were big enough to wrap around me twice???
...
I never admitted it to anyone. Later on my wife never knew that at times I "borrowed" her clothes. She did not know that many of the pieces of lingerie that I bought her would occasionally adorn my body, not just hers.'
...
'It was not until I became a father that I had the tiniest glimmerings of other things not being quite right. Many fathers are jealous of the relationship between mother and child, but I was jealous, not so much of the fact that the relationship existed, but more that right from the beginning my relationship with my children was different from hers. I wanted that bonding. In short I wanted to be their mother. So feeling guilty about this I tried extra hard to be the good husband and father. Still occasionally cross-dressing when the coast was clear.'

😡

Datun · 15/02/2024 10:34

pickledandpuzzled · 15/02/2024 09:07

This has Narc dripping from it.

The amazing insights he discovers, other people merely existing to support or undermine his experience. The self conscious writing style.

Doesn’t anyone notice and wonder if it’s a good look for the organisation? Transgression etc.

Show quote history

Many fathers are jealous of the relationship between mother and child, but I was jealous, not so much of the fact that the relationship existed, but more that right from the beginning my relationship with my children was different from hers. I wanted that bonding. In short I wanted to be their mother.

Jesus wept. Because men can't bond with their children???

Froodwithatowel · 15/02/2024 10:56

And of course no thought that their mother might have quite fancied being their father and not being the default one etc? And that it's a team game? And the poor little poppet trying to cope with his awful feelings by being a good father.... the horror. How sad for him.

Everything is always everyone else's fault and their responsibility to fix. Lundy Bancroft coming to mind again: the absolute inability to take responsibility.

pickledandpuzzled · 15/02/2024 11:15

Because he wants to be the most important only person in the world, and at some stages, that’s mum.

HelenDamnation1 · 15/02/2024 11:23

Oh my god, please can people complain about this. I can't directly as I'm NHS and will probably get ostracised/cancelled.

This is insane shit, I'm fucking furious!

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 15/02/2024 12:40

breakfastdinnerandtea · 15/02/2024 09:30

Am I a peculiar type of woman who isn't turned on by looking at themselves wearing women's clothes in the mirror? I can't say I've ever put any clothes on and felt aroused at looking at myself.

And, let me get this straight...? There's an organisation who have events where trans teenagers are encouraged to strip off to nothing? Who are the actual people organising these things? How have they not been arrested?

Show quote history

'Trans Bare All' makes no mention that I can see of age limits or rules or target age groups.

OP posts:
Original poster
ArabellaScott · 15/02/2024 12:40

breakfastdinnerandtea · 15/02/2024 09:30

Am I a peculiar type of woman who isn't turned on by looking at themselves wearing women's clothes in the mirror? I can't say I've ever put any clothes on and felt aroused at looking at myself.

And, let me get this straight...? There's an organisation who have events where trans teenagers are encouraged to strip off to nothing? Who are the actual people organising these things? How have they not been arrested?

Show quote history

'Trans Bare All' makes no mention that I can see of age limits or rules or target age groups.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2024 17:08

Transwiki also links to an old magazine that contains accounts from various 'trans' identifying people.

Including this one:

These males all sound exactly the same.

theDudesmummy · 15/02/2024 17:22

That "tranzwiki" link doesn't work any more. Presume someone in the NHS developed some sense?

duc748 · 15/02/2024 18:02

tranzwiki comes under GIRES, I see. From their website front page:

Relying on biology to define sex is problematic. It is not binary. It would also be impractical to require that it can only be defined at birth. It is not immutable. If sex is to be defined then so would gender.

Sometimes I have sympathy with Michael Gove and his 'had enough of experts'. If these are the experts.... 🙄

Newname000 · 15/02/2024 18:52

I have complained. I started to compose a thoughtful considered message but in the end went with this...

^www.nhs.uk/live-well/trans-teenager/^
This website is in serious need of updating. It refers people to GIDS which closed last year. The Transwiki link is thankfully not working but had it done so the NHS would have been guilty of sending CHILDREN to some really dodgy sites. Has no one had any safeguarding training? Finally, someone on the website team should read the CASS review ^cass.independent-review.uk/^

Sent it to the NHS website team.

https://www.nhs.uk/contact-us/contact-nhs-website-team/

duc748 · 15/02/2024 19:13

GIDS hasn't actually closed, has it? Albeit not accepting new patients.

Newname000 · 15/02/2024 19:19

duc748 · 15/02/2024 19:13

GIDS hasn't actually closed, has it? Albeit not accepting new patients.

They will be part of the handover but the Tavistock will not be part of the new national service. Responsibility for managing the GIDS waiting list has now transferred completely from the Tavistock to NHS England.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/implementing-advice-from-the-cass-review/

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 15/02/2024 20:19

theDudesmummy · 15/02/2024 17:22

That "tranzwiki" link doesn't work any more. Presume someone in the NHS developed some sense?

Broken link, more like. The wiki is still an embedded hyperlink but the page has been updated.

Unfortunately it's not because anyone thought of safeguarding issues.

OP posts:
Newname000 · 01/03/2024 20:16

Newname000 · 15/02/2024 18:52

I have complained. I started to compose a thoughtful considered message but in the end went with this...

^www.nhs.uk/live-well/trans-teenager/^
This website is in serious need of updating. It refers people to GIDS which closed last year. The Transwiki link is thankfully not working but had it done so the NHS would have been guilty of sending CHILDREN to some really dodgy sites. Has no one had any safeguarding training? Finally, someone on the website team should read the CASS review ^cass.independent-review.uk/^

Sent it to the NHS website team.

https://www.nhs.uk/contact-us/contact-nhs-website-team/

Update: Thought I'd give it a couple of weeks and, strangely, I haven't had a reply.

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 01/03/2024 20:28

Thanks for the update. I wonder what else can be done.

OP posts:
SoupDragonsFriend · 01/03/2024 21:02

Did anyone keep screenshots of the pages that have become inaccessible? They might be useful later. Thanks.

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 01/03/2024 21:09

Everything was archived.

OP posts:
Original poster
ArabellaScott · 01/03/2024 21:10

Although it never hurts to archive again ime.

OP posts: