Things Fell Apart R4 9am 6/2/24

[TeenDivided]

I only caught a bit about this, but the bit I caught seemed to be about TQ+ groups 'infiltrating' Florida schools.

His work is rather like what Adam Curtis used to do. He'd take you on a long rambling journey to show how a tea party held in the garden of a philanthropist's mansion in 1950s Alabama led to the Miner's Strike. Illustrated here:

This.

We've had a couple of threads on Jon Ronson and the issues with what he chooses to leave out of his story. I still enjoy the series though, but try to look up anything I'm curious about myself as there will invariably be more to it.

I'm only on ep 2 of the current series and thought the first two were great although I was shouting at my speakers a bit (how had a virus scientist not heard of CFS?!).

I was just thinking of Adam Curtis too! Difference being that I enjoy his convoluted stories where a present phenomenon is traced back to a forgotten and seemingly trivial event decades ago.

Not without wondering what different threads he could have pulled together and what different stories he could have created, mind. Which I see as part of the point being made.

(I’m not doing a good job of leaving this thread, obviously.)

I did find the first episode useful.

I think I'm increasingly listening to this stuff, esp on radio 4, with an ear of someone who doesn't understand it. And I get frustrated that they sit on the fence.

Actually, one of the few places where that hasn't happened, on a few occasions, is women's hour. Just not enough and not at other times of the day for more general audiences.

Today program tries but they are still often pushed to balance.

It needs to be treated as medical malpractice and evidence based. Not culture wars.

with an ear of someone who doesn't understand it.

As in, how is this coming across to the general public?

Why are people saying the ‘cat thing’ is made up. My dc have two ‘foxes’ and a ‘cat’ at school in their year! No litter tray though.

Because the thing people have been disputing is not that kids are identifying as animals but that some schools have litter trays for these kids to use when they need the toilet.

Which episode is this, please?

I've just looked on Sounds and can't see one with Today's date.

Series 2 Episode 5
It appears to be a repeat of 9th Jan 2024.

Tyvm.

I'll listen

It needs to be treated as medical malpractice and evidence based. Not culture wars.

Yes! Ep 1 was mind-blowing as to how it became a thing. I think in the US what you choose to read/ watch to inform yourself is far more tangled up in left/right that here. Facts, including medical research, themselves being seen as left/right wing.

this!

Very glad I found this. It's (the whole series) a very bizarre listen. The links (that aren't links) are off the scale. I can't believe he gets away with this shit. And yes the voice is an added irritant.

I would trust Ronson as far as I could throw Graham Linehan. His latest stance seems to be that while some TRAs are a bit wacky the main problem is their critics , who are in the throes of a moral panic.

And he offers himself as this softly spoken voice of sanity. Butter wouldn't melt.

Ronson unequivocally linked the spate of gender questioning teens to Florida Equality's supposedly justified work after yet another mass shooting. Liberal guns laws not America's problem. Lack of chest binding girls is what causes mass shootings.?!?

When questioned, the Florida Equality activist shrugged off the problem of gender confused kids and loss of parental authority as collateral damage to his cause. Ronson didn't press him on how creating non binary children reduces mass shootings.

The litter trays in schools aide story 'proved' that only fools are concerned about gender ideology. He missed the point anywhere people gather in America is now so vulnerable to mass shootings that they keep a bucket handy for hideouts.

Ronson's great gotcha statistic was that only 10 pupils in the whole of Florida have a written genderbender support plan. So only 10 transkids in the whole state? Or no school in Florida ever hid social transition from parents?

It's now against the law in Florida for schools to exclude parents like that, partly thanks to January Littlejohn, the mother in the piece. But Ronson managed to hint that she's a Republican crank - 'cos Ron de Santis etc

@WarriorN
But every single time it's what he doesn't say, specifically around lgbt stuff. And it's often hugely relevant. And he takes the story off in another direction.

Yes, it's exactly that! I'm also agreeing with a lot of what other people are posting on this thread. Why did the last bit spend so long on debunking the cat litter / kids identifying as cats? My main takeaway - very sadly - is how the US has a gun culture that seems to be the root of so much, and in that way is very different to the UK.

It felt like a very odd episode that got narrower and narrower in its outlook, and in the end was just saying that only right wing Americans in Florida are worried about kids identifying as trans...

The amount of attention given to the cat litter box myth really gave away what the goal was with this episode.

Good analysis @Chaffgoldffinch

I'm immediately distrustful of investigative journalism or analysis which is delivered in a wispery voice.

I'm obviously not alone in finding his voice grating but it's clearly become something of a trademark so I decided to google it. Didn't learn anything about his distinctive delivery or accent but this thread from 2007 popped up. It's in Classics. I didn't read all twenty something pages but it's a bit weird.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/mumsnet_classics/266632-omg-jon-ronson-s-speaking-voice

Wonder if his wife will turn up again to tell women off?

That is very weird thread 👀

MN was clearly a different place back then. I do miss the smaller, wry-chats-over-cups-of-coffee vibe of some parts of the internet, sometimes.

That is such a fun thread and a bit bonkers. But in a good way. Not disingenuous grifter podcast bonkers.

I don't know if he is a grifter exactly. He might be (who knows what's in his head) but he strikes me as someone who seems themselves as being very neutral "middle ground" between two crazy groups (and sometimes this is the case). But it makes him completely unaware of his own bias and also means every episode follows the same line "Jon Ronsen's instinctive reaction is the middle ground. The people on either side are the same level of crazy but maybe there is hope for reconciliation/understanding thanks to calm rational people like Jon Ronsen".

Also he suffers from anxiety and is very plugged in to American culture/concerns. The whole series is an attempt to show that the culture wars in America are over blown and won't escalate into something worse. I actually agree with him to an extent but it feels like something he really needs to believe to self sooth. So every episode has the same "Jon Ronsen empathises with X's concerns but ultimately demonstrates why they shouldn't be as worried as they are. Its all fiiiiiiiiiiine"