Responses to Nancy Kelly really staring to show the cracks in support of gender ideology tactis.

[lechiffre55]

I want to try and get this out there as fairly as possible. I think this shouldn't be seen with schadenfreude but with sympathy for all the people Kelly has caused such damage.
Going to split this into parts.
Link that put me onto it from the "Perm Based Lifeform" ( Ask Dennis Kavanagh )
https://twitter.com/theneonrequiem/status/1752649147818164236

Pulling together threads where this research was previously mentioned.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4639169-british-social-attitudes-survey-finds-drop-in-support-for-changing-sex-on-birth-certificate

Where @PriOn1 highlights this quote:
’Sir John Curtice, senior research fellow at the National Centre for Social Research, which published the report, told The Times: “This is the one instance where, for the moment, attitudes have not moved in a more liberal direction.”’
Hm. Like losing almost half the previous support over a couple of years (master of under statement). But if you think about it it underlines that the people answering are not bigots, but on this one issue they are changing their mind and even willing to answer affirmatively questions that ask about prejudice.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4901907-telegraph-growing-prejudice-against-transpeople

Not much discussion of the report. Just on the reporting. But that report is readable and (for all the imperfections of any research) gives us the best idea of social attitudes of the public that we have.

It's always going to be the problem of one person's 'you're getting more prejudiced' is another person's 'I now have more insight and am less willing to unconditionally support because of increasing evidence of harm to women/children/equalities/ and behaviours that frankly no one should be unconditionally supporting'.

It is less an increase in prejudice than a decrease in naivety.

But is that the case when people are reporting themselves as prejudiced?

I think if JKR, with her mainstream views, is a bigot, most people are bigots and we are therefore almost all prejudiced. Maybe the messages about rightthink have got through.

Or maybe it’s just people’s awareness that so many of the high profile media stories about trans people are about rapists and having sex criminal as a first association is prejudiced.

But if Stonewall and others hadn’t pushed for males to be in women’s prisons, this wouldn’t have been a media issue or an association at all. Ditto changing rooms, rape crisis services etc.

I’m sad to say that my first thought, at least re tws, would be suspicion: why do you want access to women’s spaces? Before all the TRA stuff, my thoughts would have been largely sympathetic.

Clearly NK’s work has not helped
the cause of T people in the slightest.

their direction and timing suggest that they have been largely triggered by the intense political debate and media discussion on both sides of the border regarding the easing of the circumstances in which someone can be diagnosed as transgender

I think it's more likely to suggest that they have been largely triggered just by the easing of the circumstances in which someone can be diagnosed as transgender.

It's not the reporting. It's the expectation that however obvious the bloke, we should pretend we can't tell.

Instead of saying 'attitudes are getting more liberal across the board except on this issue' I think we have to at least entertain the idea that they are also getting more liberal here, but the framing is back to front.

Are people realizing that the TRA position is illiberal? That it curtails women's rights? Involves compelled speech and thought? Is based in some very regressive ideas about women and femininity? Has an incel-like focus on blaming feminists for male unhappiness?

If an increasingly liberal population increasingly doesn't like it, maybe that isn't the population suddenly failing to understand one issue.

as more sunlight pours in (and will continue to do) most people being told they are bigots for knowing that you cannot change sex will just say "oh, do fuck off" . And there is fuck all the koolaid gang can do about that. What a shame.

Instead of saying 'attitudes are getting more liberal across the board except on this issue' I think we have to at least entertain the idea that they are also getting more liberal here, but the framing is back to front.

I agree.

The problem for The Right Side of History is that they have a Bundle Of Good Beliefs which Good People Must Fully Subscribe To.

If you don't embrace the whole bundle, you are a Fallen Bad-Wrong-Side-of-History Person, and furthermore you must by definition be guilty of Fully Subscribing to the Bundle Of Bad Beliefs. (See scoldings about far right wing /religious fundamentalist funded /Trump-supporting /closet-Tory /reading wrong media/ etc).

I'm not sure people of liberal political leanings would agree that liberal now means 'totalitarian' or 'hates women and wants to subordinate them in law' and 'remove child safeguarding and any other boundaries that get in the way of the sexual freedoms of men with Issues'.

Its rather like many of those who are of actual left political beliefs and values looking at the parties who identify as being politically left and going....wtaf?

Stonewall is in a dreadful state, the LGB Alliance increasingly seen as being representative of gay men and lesbian women; an out-and-out, in-depth anti-trans opposition has formed and no amount of squealing 'Nazi!' or 'bigot!' is touching it.

Gay men and women want an organisation that represents gay men and women! And calling them Nazis isn't even stopping them!

Poor Nancy Kelley. No matter what you do (up to and including throwing gay men and lesbians under the bus whilst head of an ostensibly gay rights charity) you can never, never be enough of an ally.