British Social Attitudes Survey Finds Drop in Support for Changing Sex on Birth Certificate

[Igneococcus]

Not sure if this has been shared yet:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1a28cbb2-39c6-11ed-a8ae-d2d57cd0511a?shareToken=0e710b7f87e049af64e40da63ff55bfa

quite right too. Your birth certificate is a statement of fact, not feeling. As a genealogist, this rewriting history and going back to alter legal documents really worries me.

Thread about the Guardian article on this.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4639069-guardian-being-pathetic-again

Guardian article is fudging it. Not worth reading. Times report much clearer and reflects what we know to be true.

Well it seems that we are finally making some real head way in getting through to people

’Sir John Curtice, senior research fellow at the National Centre for Social Research, which published the report, told The Times: “This is the one instance where, for the moment, attitudes have not moved in a more liberal direction.”’

I see this as hugely significant. Generally, with increasing knowledge of genuine human rights issues, support among the general public grows over time. That this specific instance is not only not moving in a more liberal direction, but on the contrary, has seen a significant swing in the opposite direction, means that they are failing to use the increasing visibility of their cause to convince listeners to the validity of their argument.

Obviously the reasons for this are well understood on this board, but such significant findings will rapidly become hard to explain away, as “just transphobia” even for the most staunch defenders.

I need my birth certificate changed, because my weight has increased since I was born.

You're thinking of your girth certificate.

Why do they suddenly start talking about Brexit? Then whether people feel British. Then whether people think Britain is better than other countries. Then the NHS. But with no analysis of whether/how those views are related.

They say:
The survey found that views on so-called culture war issues overlapped strongly with Brexit divisions.

But does the study actually show correlation between gender-self-id opinion and Brexit opinion? If so, why don't they say what the correlation is? Eg x% of Leavers support Self ID compared with y% of Remainers. Ideally broken down by age group, since that's a fairly likely source of correlation (and one which would need to be explored further, since I suspect the reasons are different)

Instead, they just seem to be throwing numbers around randomly. 30% of people support Self ID and 30% think Britain is the best country doesn't meant it's same people

It's a bullshit propaganda exercise, was my conclusion, JustWaking.

Brilliant

'Sir John Curtice, senior research fellow at the National Centre for Social Research, which published the report, told The Times: “This is the one instance where, for the moment, attitudes have not moved in a more liberal direction.”’

He's wrong. If they go and change the previous data to show a lower number, then they'll find the increase in "liberal" attitudes that they feel is appropriate.

Problem solved! and now the data aligns with the true feelings of a man.

Some incredibly wrong-thinking people, including, sadly, myself, feel that compelling people to go along with the lie that a man is a woman is in fact a less liberal position.

And that the fundamental philosophical basis for pushback is liberal principles.

If a man wants to say he's a woman, we can't stop him. But others do not have to participate in the role play.

Yes, not liking that ehat is and isnt more liberal is decided by them.

Compelled speech is decidedly illiberal.

Great news. The vast, vast majority of people know that you can't change sex.

Agreed, @NecessaryScene
Gender ideology is regressive and illiberal: reinforcing harmful gender stereotypes for both men and women and rolling back women's recently-won freedom to participate fairly and equally in society.

So in fact, as you say, attitudes have now moved in a more liberal direction, in pushing back against illiberal gender ideology.

Prety poor research that when a study shows one instance where people are behaving differently to all other situations, he doesn't even consider that he's got his assumptions wrong (ie about whether gender ideology is liberal or not)