Wes Streeting on single sex wards

[ArabellaScott]

https://twitter.com/SkyPoliticsHub/status/1752059704233124087

'it should not be beyond the realms of possibility to have wards for women, wards for men, and also suitable safe accommodation for trans people'

'single sex wards' - but dodges the question about whether this would be by sex or gender.

Are you suggesting that excluding male bodied patients from women's wards is not a proportionate response to the legitimate need to provide safety, dignity and privacy for female bodied patients in an exceptionally vulnerable situation?

If course its legitimate and proportionate, unless you think women's privacy and dignity doesn't matter

Rhetorical question, no need to answer

This political view sees no purpose for women other than serving the validation desires of men. It's not like they're actually human or have their own needs or feelings or anything. And no possible other solutions but those men but the unfettered use of women, devoid of compassion or interest in the impact.

It borders on sociopathic in its misogyny.

Hi @DadJoke

Any chance of a response? Thought not.

As a toiler at the NHS coalface, allow me to predict how this will play out.

Let's look on the bright side, and assume that Wes really will tell hospitals that wards should be single-sex, but that they need separate, facilities for trans people, which don't require them to be on the ward of their birth sex (something that I would support in principle- my priority the safety and dignity of women, but I'd like a solution that doesn't distress anyone who IDs as trans).

Wes, as SOS for Health, issues this edict to NHS England, who, in turn, issue it to hospitals. There will not of course be any extra funding to implement it, so any costs involved will be taken from other patient services.

With no funding to build additional facilities, hospitals have to juggle with what they already have. How difficult this is will vary wildly, depending on how modern the hospital is. Hospitals built in the last 15ish years typically have all beds in en-suite single rooms. So the 'ward' is not a ward in the traditional sense: it's a group of rooms, more like a hotel corridor. It would be easy for them to designate an area as for trans patients as and when needed - the trans patient does not need to be in shared facilities with people of either sex.

But, for older hospitals, their only option is to use one of their scarce single rooms, which means one less for people with infectious illness/people who are dying/breast-feeding mothers (on wards other than the postnatal ones). If they can't free up a room, they will just argue exceptional circumstances, and almost certainly house the patient on the ward of their gender identity, not their sex because the NHS has been comprehensively Stonewalled. So, in fact, nothing whatsoever will have improved for women, even if Wes is currently telling the truth. Wes, like any SOS, won't care about that. He commanded, it was done. End of.

But to exclude transgender people from those wards, it needs to be legitimate and proportionate, so no.

No it doesn't. Most "trans women" are legally male, unequivocally. Single sex wards exclude all members of the opposite sex, not just some.

And let's keep in mind we are doing this to women who by definition are ill, in pain, immobile, highly vulnerable, dealing with all the stress and distress of their own situation, and are in no state to have to deal with the additional stress and issues of a male stuffed into their proximity.

A male who at best is likely to cause high stress, anxiety, embarrassment and distress to a woman in the next bed, and at worse may cause her a whole lot more issues. It's in his gift as to whether or not she comes out of the experience unharmed; all she has is the hope of being lucky.

Who treats other people like this?! Who the hell would want to inflict this on an ill woman?!

Yep. My (immobile) teenage Dd was in a general female adult ward last week in a bay with about 12 beds. The youngest by 40 years. She had an alcoholic woman next to her behaving erratically who was early 60s. Lots of screaming and moaning. An older women very confused - trying to escape etc. This was not the bay designated to dementia sufferers but I think uti and mental health problems mean many patients were distressed.

Now imagine if your teenage daughter was the only female on a male adult area. Or if the alcoholic next to her was a man who said he was a woman.

If I was the sister in charge I would not care if any bed-bound teenage girl identified as a boy, I would put them in a female area as she would be safer. Sod any directives from government.

The only single bedded rooms were for really infectious diseases. Not Covid. There were 2 on the whole floor. The problem is you can’t keep an eye on those people easily so it’s very more labour intensive. And there is a vulnerability with not been seen too.

I'll translate what DadJoke means:

Women's safety, privacy and dignity is 'not legitimate'.

Not if set against a man's need for validation and accommodation with the women he wants to be among.

And tumbleweed........

Excluding trans women from single sex wards by default is not legitimate or proportionate in my view.

Your "view" is completely irrelevant.

How is it not legitimate or proportionate to exclude men from hospital wards containing ill, vulnerable women in a state of partial undress?

Answers on a postcard please.

We don't want to exclude transwomen from single sex wards - on the contrary.

We want them firmly kept with all of the other men.

(I notice that you don't seem bothered about the plight of transmen . . . why is that?)

Can we collectively ignore Dad joke ? He derails every thread

Seconded.

Only because people let him.

I get the answering of faux naive questions, for the benefit of lurkers - have done it myself. But people need to learn when to step away, to prevent derails. It's frustrating because it's enabling people who want to take down this forum.

Yes. Absurd assertions and mistruths seem to require correction but derails don't help a thread.

To you, for sure. I was answering a question I was asked twice.

Yes. Absurd assertions and mistruths seem to require correction but derails don't help a thread.

Indeed. Apologies.

It's easy to get sucked in! Despite my best intentions, I often catch myself playing pigeon chess.

It's not our problem to fix wards or hospitals or staff, it's on stonewall et al to lobby for such things, until that happens, wards should be segregated by sex.
I wont hold my breath waiting for any of this to happen

It was a note to self Eresh!

And I would see that as I've one arm less to fight them off if needed. Stick me on a single sex womens ward.

ArabellaScott · 30/01/2024 16:16

Interesting to see this play out on X. TRAs are very, very angry. Women don't seem all that happy either, though.

It seems that they are innumerate, doesn't it? Which pool of voters would be the best to have voting for us?

A few thousand? Or 30 million.

Hmm, yes, lets go for the tiny group...

I'm beginning to think that they don't want to inherit the shitshow that is the United Kingdom, just at the moment.