How to respond: been asked what sex I was assigned at birth

[Needapadlockonmyfridge]

I recently signed up to have blood tests privately (vitamin levels etc).

On the health questionnaire, one of the questions asked what sex I was assigned at birth.

Scientific company should surely do better than this. Not sure it is worth flagging up with them. I suppose, at least they didn't ask gender, but still.... Disappointing.

The attempts to define sex in the EqA is not a "clarification", but a straightforward change in the law which forces providers to exclude all transgender people from services matching their gender identity

You would have to believe that female is a word that means male and female and male is a word that means male and female for any of that outlandish claim to make sense.

When you spend your life only every talking trans you end up sounding nonsensical.

"single-sex spaces matching their gender identity"

Let's parse this.
Single-sex spaces are segregated by sex.
You say users are entitled to the space matching their gender identity.
In this context, the matching gender identity is that of the opposite sex.
The single-sex space is still segregated by sex, so you are saying that gender identity is the same as sex.

Are you saying gender identity = sex?

If you are, the right you're demanding is a right to insist that a statement of personal identity alters material, legal, biological and social reality. Not only for the person claiming it, but for everyone who comes into contact with them.

That's quite some right. The only equivalents I can think of are those of ancient monarchs and some religious officials, who had the right to force everyone to believe they were divinely appointed.

Other people who've attempted to alter everyone's beliefs about them, in order to confirm their inner sense of identity, have been exposed and prosecuted as frauds.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/01/25/her-penis-the-most-orwellian-phrase-of-our-age/

I think this is appropriate for this thread.

Moral derangement indeed.

Ah, so you want transwomen (i.e. men who say they're women) to be allowed to use women's toilets and changing rooms? Like, say Katie/Lennon Dolatowski? Or Andrew Miller/Amy George? Or Isla Bryson/Adam Graham? Or Karen White/Stephen Wood?

No thank you.

I have not heard a coherent definition of sex which divides all people into male and female.

And yet we are expected instead to accept categorisation according to "gender" - does that have a coherent definition, would you say?

The right which transgender people have to use single-sex spaces matching their gender identity, unless there is a legitimate and proportionate reason to exclude them

You've got this really arse about face. The "legitimate and proportionate reason" is the justification to exclude all men, i.e. to allow sex discrimination in some circumstances.

The right which transgender people have to use single-sex spaces matching their gender identity, unless there is a legitimate and proportionate reason to exclude them. Providers get to decide whether they want to use this exemption, and they sometimes do - for example, rape crisis centres have the option, and sports bodies make their own decisions. The attempts to define sex in the EqA is not a "clarification", but a straightforward change in the law which forces providers to exclude all transgender people from services matching their gender identity.

Any person operating a single sex space is already using the sex exception. Allowing some males without GRCs in is not a legitimate use of it.

The Equality Act does not govern the "rights" of males to use female only spaces. A few years ago, contrary to claims, this hardly ever happened.

@DadJoke

TWs do not have a right to enter women-only spaces. They have a right not to be discriminated against directly or indirectly by virtue of their sex or gender reassignment. That means they must have access to equally good provision as everyone else - a requirement that can be met by third spaces. Indeed, many such spaces have arisen, such as 'unisex' spaces, but at the expense of women-only provision.

What is the legitimate and proportionate aim of the abolition of women-only spaces? There must surely be one, otherwise providers are indirectly discriminating against religious minority women, who are not permitted to enter mixed-sex spaces and who therefore now have no provision at all.

(Just to add, the legitimate and proportionate test applies to all forms of discrimination.)

This does sum it up though?

A change to the Eq A to biological sex would make spaces single sex

It’s the only thing bar removing the GRA which would help women rather than men

I am not demanding anything. I am answering the question "which trans rights do you want to remove?" You are confirming you want to remove those rights, then arguing in favour of doing so.

They clearly have that right, unless there is a legimate and proportionate reason for a provider to exclude them, and they clearly use it, with no legal consequences, because it is legal. You are arguing to remove that right, which was my point.

You and others are welcome to set up spaces which exclude transgender people, and some providers have done this. What you do not have is the right to force providers to exclude trans women.

Well, clearly they do, and have been for decades, but the EqA cements that. Give me one piece of case law to the contrary.

At least admit you want to change the law to remove that right rather than asserting that transgender people using the toilets associated with their gender identity is not legal.

Trans women can and do use toilets based on their gender identity, and I don't want to stop that based on your selective nutpicking, and more than I want non-trans women to stop being nurses because of Lucy Letby.

Ah, the non trans women are back! Hurrah!

Bravely fighting for the rights of men to access women's spaces.

Yeah, and let those lesser women know which women matter.

Scratch that. It's not about the spaces. It's about the women in the spaces.

Such a typical male response - we want, therefore we’ll take. Step aside ladies, the men are here.

I do not agree that any man, including any man who see himself as transgender, has any right to enter spaces reserved, or advertised as, for women. I have received emails from an organisation which advertises online events for women. It would be extremely arrogant and selfish of me as a man to sign up for and attend these events. So I don't. I do not believe that I have any right to attend, either granted to me in law, or moral.

We are 100% in agreement. Providers should provide a unisex space so that TWs are catered for, and a single-sex space so that women are catered for.

Glad we got that sorted.

Absolutely agree with you.

Equally, as a 50-something, white, able-bodied woman I have no right (or desire) to access services for e.g young, black, disabled people. And so I don’t - because it would be wrong on many levels of me to push my way into a space that isn’t for me.

Yep. As a straight person, I've never been to a gay club either on the basis that there are lots of places I can go (so I'm not stuck for an outlet) and invading a space set up for gay people to go and socialise somewhere where they have a trait in common that I don't share would be unfair.

Men are women and you want to remove that right!

Er ...

Forgive me but I did laugh at the unfortunate but very apt typo in this post.