How to respond: been asked what sex I was assigned at birth

[Needapadlockonmyfridge]

I recently signed up to have blood tests privately (vitamin levels etc).

On the health questionnaire, one of the questions asked what sex I was assigned at birth.

Scientific company should surely do better than this. Not sure it is worth flagging up with them. I suppose, at least they didn't ask gender, but still.... Disappointing.

No one assigns sex.

Sex is determined by your chromosomes at conception as is observed later on in the womb or at birth. Any statement otherwise counts, scientifically, as bollocks.

EVERYONE knows what sex they are, including the dysphoric or how else can they say that they're in the wrong body?

Sex and gender, despite being conflated, are two separate and distinct things. Sex is a biological reality - whether you like it or not - while gender is a social construct evaluating things - purely arbitrarily - as masculine or feminine. E.g. pink is currently a feminine colour while blue is considered masculine. That shit. Colours are the ultimate example because up to 1920-ish blue was considered feminine and pink masculine - then Queen Mary prefered the pink nursey.

Raise hell, OP.

Was it really Queen Mary's influence that swapped the pink/blue colour affiliation with sex?

The one influence that I was aware of was Victoria popularising white wedding dresses with black being customary prior to that.

@LaughingCat

"I’m so sorry, I’m not up to date with the movement in this language - no offence was meant at all. I just thought cis meant that you identified as the same gender as your sex at birth, not that you ascribed to a specific gender role within that. What does gc stand for? And your last sentence…can you unpack that for me? How is gender identity and women’s oppression linked? Genuine questions!"
Do you live in a pineapple under the sea?

No one assigns sex.
**
Sex is determined by your chromosomes at conception as is observed later on in the womb or at birth.

It’s not as simple as that. People who are chromosomally male, but look externally female, are generally assigned to the female category at birth.

People who are chromosomally male, but look externally female, are generally assigned to the female category at birth.

They find out when puberty doesn't happen, unless it was revealed in earlier medical treatment. Same as various other congenital defects - I discovered one of mine in my thirties, and another one last year! There are loads of abnormalities that only become evident in childhood, and others don't manifest until adulthood.

In no case do we decide it's unsafe to make assumptions based on the average.

In your example, the girl still has male biology and will need hormone treatment to maintain adult health following failed puberty. That's because she has no functional gonads.

I can't recall anything that happened at my birth, unsurprisingly, so I have no idea if I was assigned a sex at that time, or indeed anything else.

The question is phrased so badly.

Thank you everyone, I have just caught up on the discussion. It has been thought- provoking, and I feel reassured that I wasn't over-reacting in thinking it was an incredibly badly worded question.

I haven't had any response to my email as yet, will let you know if/when I do.....

I feel reassured that I wasn't over-reacting in thinking it was an incredibly badly worded question

That's the problem with echo chambers....

In your example, the girl still has male biology and will need hormone treatment to maintain adult health following failed puberty. That's because she has no functional gonads

This is incorrect for CAIS individuals. At puberty, they convert testosterone from their internal testes to oestrogen, which then drives female puberty to create the standard female body type.

Obviously they are infertile and may need plastic surgery in order to be able to have penetrative sex. But I doubt they would be able to inherit a dukedom, use the men's changing room, or avoid anti-female sexism.

Mmm no, it has underlined for me that the question I was asked was nonsensical. No two ways about it.

From my earlier link:

My preference would be for the question to simply say ‘what is your sex?’ or ‘are you male or female?’ But we all know that some trans people believe that they have become the opposite sex. They will point out the sex marker on their passport for example (their ‘legal’ sex). It’s a shame that this legal fiction ever came to be. Maybe passports should state sex and gender.

So for clarity, ‘sex at birth’ would be best. They could then also ask ‘Do you have a DSD?’ so as to clear up any confusion.

I see @Peasandsweetcorns has brought their ‘essences’ to another thread. Testes, ovaries, chromosomes etc are not ‘essences’, they are physical, observable things.

I'd be interested to know what proportion of the trans community these form, as opposed to their prevalence in the population at large.

Theoretically it should be a considerably higher proportion than there is in the general population. There should also be (theoretically) similar numbers of transwomen and transmen.

However in practice it appears that by far the greatest number of transppl; are genitally unambiguous males who claim to be women. Can anyone think of a scientifically valid explanation for this apparent anomaly?

This thread is fascinating, but I'm no closer to working out what the perfect wording would be for the question.

@LaughingCat has raised questions about how to allow for DSDs. But, thanks to pp like @SaffronSpice I think I now understand that DSDs are sex specific. So, if the patient provides information about their DSD, it doesn't matter what goes in the M/F box.

Lots of people are offended by 'assigned', although I am not. If it's offensive to people with DSDs though, I don't think it should be used.

So the remaining question is how to make sure that patients are truthful about their sex even if they have some weird metaphysical ideas about their gender. The current wording does the job, with the added benefit that trans people already buy into it.

Of course a really determined genderist could find a way to misinterpret it, but really there's no hope for such people.

'Women and girls with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS) invariably have a female typical core gender identity'

Looks like having a DSD and being trans are two completely different and unrelated things.

I think you knew that 😉

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20358272/

You are born male or female. If healthcare practitioners validating your gender identity is more important to you than accuracy about biological facts which could affect your physical health and/or any treatment, that is a choice you make and you reap whatever consequences arise from that choice.

The sooner this absolute, health-and-life-risking madness of so-called 'gender markers' being allowed to be adapted on medical records and thus obscure sex, which in that arena is the fact which actually matters, comes to an end the better.

I think I now understand that DSDs are sex specific. So, if the patient provides information about their DSD, it doesn't matter what goes in the M/F box.

DSDs are rare to extremely rare. Most HCP will not know them or understand them. It is certainly information that should be provided, but in addition to telling them your basic information - sex.

The Gender Dysphoria Alliance objects to 'assigned':

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1261/rr-2

'...we believe that the alteration of language and the falsified understanding of biological sex, applied to all people, is the result of extreme activism which is increasing societal hostility towards trans people. We do not wish to participate in that, and we don’t think it’s necessary in order for us to have rights and be integrated into society.'

Of course I did.

The question was rhetorical.

Chromosal sex and other sex-based characteristics are determined in the womb. Sex is legally assigned at birth.

Both these things are true. Yes, transgender people have a sex assigned at birth - if there wasn't a discrepancy between their sex assigned at birth and their gender identity, they wouldn't be transgender. Transgender people are keenly aware of the reality of biology. So, no, I am not being remotely transphobic and your supposed concern for the feelings intersex people is simply that they mess up the simplified gender critical model of sex.

"Sex" and "gender" are terms which overlap in English. You can't, for example, change your chromosomes, but you absolutely can change many of your sexed charateristics, including your endocrine system. Gender critical people want to map legal sex to chromosomes to legislate specific transgender rights out of existence, and yet, I have not heard a coherent definition of sex which divides all people into male and female.

The only people with a legally assigned sex are those people that have a a gender recognition certificate.

I have not heard a coherent definition of sex which divides all people into male and female.

Here you go: Presence of a Y chromosome means male.

Happy to help!

@DadJoke, which specific transgender rights are we trying to legislate against?

"Sometimes" it is wrong. Many people have with DSDs do not reveal themselves when sex is assigned. Sometimes it's obvious. And no they don't "pluck the sex out of the air" - they use they available evidence on inspection to assign a legal sex at birth.

The right which transgender people have to use single-sex spaces matching their gender identity, unless there is a legitimate and proportionate reason to exclude them. Providers get to decide whether they want to use this exemption, and they sometimes do - for example, rape crisis centres have the option, and sports bodies make their own decisions. The attempts to define sex in the EqA is not a "clarification", but a straightforward change in the law which forces providers to exclude all transgender people from services matching their gender identity.

You don't agree that trans women should be allowed to use women's toilets and changing rooms as they legally do at the moment. So, you want to remove that right.