Sources help - cis

[NoBinturongsHereMate]

I know many here have splendid reference catalogues, so I hope you can hit me with some written sources about not using 'cis'.

Ideally including an explanation of why - although I can do that part myself if needed - but mainly I need to demonstrate that there's a significant level of objection.

So surveys with numbers objecting to the term would be ideal, or docs from multiple groups stating their objection.

There have been some polls on twitter

https://twitter.com/babybeginner/status/1642554890470948864

Musk declared cis is seen as a slur on twitter
https://fortune.com/2023/06/21/elon-musk-declares-cis-cisgender-slurs-twitter-punishable-suspension/

I know there were a few other polls but no idea where to find them

Because it's a pronoun not asked for, and as we are to respect all pronouns, then I find it offensive being referred to as this.

It's not a pronoun, it's a prefix/adjective (depending on use). And I'm OK for explanations, what I need written sources showing I'm not the only one who objects.

Twitter policy, is good - thanks. Can definitely use that.

It’s nonsensical.
Cis means ‘this side of’ and trans means ‘other side of’.
Useful in chemistry and geographical descriptions.

Utter tosh when trying to squeeze the whole of humanity into trans-thinking.



https://sex-matters.org/ Have a look on the Sex Matters website OP.
Good luck.

If you search for thread titles with the term CIS, on here, you will find hundreds of people who object to it.

I don't know if the people you are trying to convince rate mumsnet or not, but it is the biggest parenting site in the world, which should make them think.

MN will be one of my sources, but organisations with it written into a policy, with a document setting out organisational objections, or a survey with clear numbers will carry more weight than a spread out selection of posts. It's for a work thing, and they aren’t going to spend time trawling individual threads.

Thank @heldinadream - I can definitely make use of
Reindorf's 3rd recommendation to employers https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/sex-and-gender-belief-and-agnosticism-after-forstater/

Excellent, glad it's some use.
@NoBinturongsHereMate I think the point about looking up other threads is probably that you'll find lots of links to other resources by doing so. There's quite a lot out there!

I had a Google for you. Lots of noise in the results because of the insurance company and building regs (?). Other than that my search was dominated by pressure groups and Pink New (so much Pink News😔) insisting it wasn't a problem. Perhaps this could be useful though? If it isn't controversial, what are they pushing back against?

A trans-ideology-compatible critique is that other people's "cis" identity is often assumed; someone will be accused of being cis but how do you know they are really?

It is a label that is being applied by one group without the consent of the group it is being applied to. There is also the compelled speech aspect to use a term which you don't agree with and didn't ask for.
Plus it is a completely made up definition from gender ideology, which in itself is a fabrication.

Yes, the piles of building regs foiled my googling as well. Especially when combined with 'survey'.

Does anyone remeber where to find the Mumsnet special FWR posting rules? I think they might also mention not using cis. I'm sure they used to be linked at the top of the boards but I can't see them now.

Caroline Criado Perez wrote about it in 2014 and got monstered by transactivists and still continues to be written off by them on the basis of this and "Invisible Women" - she looks to have taken the piece of her website but there might be an archive somewhere.

Here's a critical article at the time.

https://www.transadvocate.com/et-tu-caroline-criado-pereznn_14058.htm

Does anyone remeber where to find the Mumsnet special FWR posting rules? I think they might also mention not using cis.

Yes, they did. Will try to find.

https://www.mumsnet.com/i/trans-rights-moderation-policy

That said, it’s clear that most trans people find the use of pronouns or names that they or others have consciously rejected, to be hurtful and would therefore struggle to engage in a discussion with those who insist on using them. The same is true of the expression ‘Trans-Identified Male’ or ‘TIM’. Likewise, many feminists are affronted by the term ‘cis’ and ‘terf’, so using these terms will make civil debate less likely. As we’ve said, context is everything – but our moderation team will most likely delete these expressions if we feel they're being used in a deliberately inflammatory way.

I hope the disappearance of the CCP piece is website reorganisation rather than surrender.

Thanks @Ereshkigalangcleg .

I think between Twitter policy, MN policy and the Reindorf advice I can assemble something robust.

(But if anyone has more, do keep it coming!)

https://aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison

This is a good, often cited essay from 2016 from Rebecca Reilly Cooper which touches on the problem of "cis":

So if you want to call yourself a genderqueer femme presenting demigirl, you go for it. Express that identity however you like. Have fun with it. A problem emerges only when you start making political claims on the basis of that label – when you start demanding that others call themselves cisgender, because you require there to be a bunch of conventional binary cis people for you to define yourself against; and when you insist that these cis people have structural advantage and political privilege over you, because they are socially read as the conformist binary people, while nobody really understands just how complex and luminous and multifaceted and unique your gender identity is. To call yourself non-binary or genderfluid while demanding that others call themselves cisgender is to insist that the vast majority of humans must stay in their boxes, because you identify as boxless.

Yes, please do stand up at work and announce that "cis" is bad because Elon Musk, some people on mumsnet, and some blatantly anti-trans lobby groups said so, I'm sure it'll go down splendidly.

Cisgender people are people who are not trangender. It usually only comes up when discussing people who are and are not transgender, and it's a convenient way of distinguishing between both groups, just like heterosexual and homosexual. "Non-transgender" is a synonym. It's a term used by all reputable psychological bodies. It is overwhelmingly used neutrally. While some people might not like then, the term is not insulting or disparaging at all.

GC people object to it because they think it means they must accept the reality of gender identity. There are other terms which reflect distinctions without accepting an ideology - gentile and Jewish, believer and non-believer. Discussing transgender issues without an adjective to refer to people who aren't transgender is pretty awkward.

I avoid the term on mumsnet (unless we are talking about it) because it's against moderation rules- non-trans is a decent alternative.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/cisgender-meaning

Thanks for this excerpt, Erish, it makes the point very clearly.

And the following posts illustrate the final point beautifully.

They do, don't they!