GC in NZ

[nameychangerrrrrr]

I am a British woman who works in a professional role in NZ. I am left wing, hard left some would say, and gender critical. I never used to be, but in the last couple of year have done a complete 180.

I feel like I'm going mad. All of my friends and colleagues accept this ideology uncritically. I am living in anticipation of the day when I will have to come clean. I just don't get it. It seems so obvious to me now what bullshit the ideology is. In the UK I follow so many strong GC women but in NZ it just seems like "be kind" is the mantra.

This should bring up threads from the past year
https://www.mumsnet.com/search/advanced?query=New+Zealand&allTopics=false&topics[0]=Feminism%3A+Sex+%26+gender+discussions&from=2023-01-01&to=2024-01-09&type=op

A little bit of irreverence is an excellent start IMO.

I feel the same about my old school friends in Australia. To me they have literally gone insane but I feel confident they will see the light eventually. It will just take a few Isla Brysons unfortunately.

I don't know of anyone who supported Laurel Hubbard, most were quite perplexed about how it was allowed to happen. At the time I thought it was some nuance of Olympic law that allowed LH to participate as a woman (which I guess it was, but would it have been allowed by another country?). My 14 yo daughter and her friends engaged in heated debate with their English teacher (who ran the Rainbow club) about why it was unfair - the teacher's arguments were so poor as to be ridiculous, even using my DDs superior strength over some boys her age as a reason why it was all fine and dandy. I assume Laurel was supported and encouraged by the TRAs, as some kind of figurehead.

It would have to be a bloody big ship for Laurel to be the figurehead!

I stumbled across a programme on Māori TV last night: "Ai" which is on at 9.30. It is apparently a series dedicated to educating young people about sexual health. They were in the middle of a a convo about trans when I switched over, and I watched them interview a young female about her experiences. She was demi/pan, which means you like someone for who they are, and her pronouns were they/she. I think she said she identified as queer. I found it really interesting that she discussed how she came to her pronouns. She seemed to use "pronoun" very strongly as a synonym for gender identity - it was jarring to see this ownership of a linguistic term. She was unmistakably female, she seemed to be avoiding saying she was a lesbian, and she was neuro diverse. She also talks about the men in dresses on the marae that ppl just accepted as "aunties".

If you can find it on catch up I'd urge you to watch it. It was interesting to hear their persepctives and get a window into their thoughts.

I'm staggered to find out I'm possibly demi though. I was already under the umbrella being agender (no pronouns) and asexual (the new term for people who don't have sex constantly) so now I'm +++? Every day is a school day.

Bit confused about what else you would like someone for if not who they are?

I'm still stunned to discover that despite being sexually active, I'm asexual because I don't want to have sex with total strangers.

There are increasingly very few descriptive terms which actually....describe anything.

I don't know about NZ, but my feeling about Australia (used to live there, still visit frequently) is that it's partly because politics is so much more binary when it comes to social issues. No one even vaguely Left or (small l) liberal-leaning wants to be identified with the right-wing racist head-bangers so, basically, you either swallow the whole (small l) liberal package, which includes TWAW, or you go full-on Pauline Hanson.

That's very different from the UK because neither of our main political parties is particularly socially (small c) conservative. The Tories were in the past, but not since the mid-90s. (Ok, they were opposed to equal marriage but so were many on the left and, they did eventually pass it). So, in the UK, you can be socially (small l) liberal but politically Conservative, or vice versa.

Australia is more like the US that the UK in how binary its politics are.

@SinnerBoy thats exactly what it was like. Anyone that turned up to support kjk was hounded and painted as a bigot. Someone got punched in the face.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow That’s interesting. I left Oz almost 30 years ago so very out of touch with the nuance of politics there. My old school friends are all privately educated, a lot of grazier and financial family backgrounds and traditionally would have all voted Liberal. It’s no surprise to me that people like that may have evolved to be left leaning but I have been shocked and depressed by their wholesale embrace of identity politics in general and trans rights in particular.

I guess it makes sense that it is a reaction to Tony Abbot and Scott Morrison etc. but what a pity women’s rights is the victim.

Probably depends where you work, I would feel totally free to say "Men cannot become women," etc, in my workplace. The one time it did come up in a serious conversation one of the women was like "That's so weird though...a man dressed up as a woman?!" Kind of shocked by it. And obviously didn’t feel any pressure to pretend otherwise.

But I’ve usually only heard 'gender' referred to in a joking way though like "kids these days don't know if they're girls or cats!", “I’m going to identify as 65
and get the pension,” that sort of stuff. I'm sure there are other workplaces
where it’s more of a big thing and you'd be more careful, like government departments/media/schools.

Obviously my perspective is an outsider's, these days, and actual Aussies may disagree. But Australian politics does feel a world away from the days of John Howard - not that I was a fan of his, I mean more the atmosphere. There were the racist nut jobs back then as well, of course, but most people, however they voted, were in the middle.

nameychangerrrrrr Today 08:03

Thats exactly what it was like. Anyone that turned up to support kjk was hounded and painted as a bigot. Someone got punched in the face.

Yes, a 70 year old lady, whose eye socket was broken. The story was followed here on MN, with links to the big lump who hit her, whining that it was so unfair that he might go to prison.

And then he got a gentle slap on the wrist.

xxwinterxx · Today 08:40

Ah, I see. So most people would be OK with gender critical views, but anyone in any sort of officialdom would think it best to keep schtumm.

I'm not sure what I wrote to get deleted, I've been quite circumspect over the last few months...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/christian-teacher-stripped-of-registration-after-refusing-to-use-trans-students-pronouns/WFGT2FVSSNGGDGY4ZEQ5U2E74I/

Is NZ more liberal and accepting than Britain then? I didn’t think it was, Australia certainly isn’t!

OP - I do not want to hijack your thread but I just want to answer this!

Mumsnet turned me. I remember saying to dh years ago that the women on this site were bananas re trans issue.

But- there was a niggle which led to my 180! 😁

Whenever I see this picture I can't help but wonder if it isn't all about posh kids being able to reinforce the heirarchies it's no longer socially acceptable to support - all while looking woker than woke.
I definitely think one reason my husband's posh friends are so fully on board with it is that they get to do all their social justice activism amongst People Like Us, and no longer have to have anything to do with the plebs, like you would if you were involved with anti-racism activism or employment rights or something.

As someone who lives in NZ but is not a Kiwi, I get the impression that it tries to be liberal and accepting in a way that Australia doesn't. Te reo (the Maori language) seems to have similar status to Welsh. People are definitely more environmentally conscious than in the UK. There are pride flags all over the artsy quarter of my town.

However, the recent change in government means new policies are likely to be more conservative. I also notice a bluntness among older Kiwis regarding attitudes to things like race—not always clear-cut prejudice, but there seems to be less self-censorship or concern with socially acceptable phrasing. There seems to be quite a social divide between Maori and pakeha in spite of attempts to bring the two groups together.

I don't have a professional level job, and I don't think gender identity beliefs are particular popular among my colleagues. I know a number of under-30s, and more seem to be gender critical than not if the subject is raised.

Currently on extended leave here in Auckland,travelling to lake Taupo tomorrow for 6 days if anyone wants to meet up message me,I meet a close friend since being here talked about issues mentioned KJK and let women speak in Albert Park she said do you mean the women causing the riots I moved the talk onto how do you think Lesbians feel about men with penises expecting to date them she looked embarrassed but didn't say anything since then I haven't heard from her which is disappointing.

Kia Kaha Adult female Wahine

"I definitely think one reason my husband's posh friends are so fully on board with it is that they get to do all their social justice activism amongst People Like Us, and no longer have to have anything to do with the plebs, like you would if you were involved with anti-racism activism or employment rights or something."

That's beautifully and elegantly savage, Lily. And I think you're dead on.

Kia ora no it is now kia ora or hello isn't it?
Thanks to National government we all are nothing more special than the rest 🤣
Perhaps those that habe no issue are not backwards but accepting.
Harold the giraffes a government funded very limited I'd imagine when half the 1st year university students are running around with very sti rates.
Oh op go back to the UK! We don't want tourists bs. Take national with you

@Mumtime2 yeah I’m not going anywhere 😘

Are you saying that the unreasonable ones are not, just for eg, the fat white rich blokes like Laurel Hubbard that are stealing podium spots from disadvantaged young women of colour, but the women pointing out that this is unfair?