Surrogacy-help me explain to my daughter why this is exploiting women

[happydappy2]

Teen daughter thinks surrogacy is fine, as an opportunity for the woman to earn money.
I've explained that only impoverished women do it, not wealthy ones.
It's not fair on the child to be removed from it's natural Mother/protector.
It will be a high risk pregnancy for the surrogate.
Ultimately benefits mens, not women or children.
There have been cases of paedophiles commissioning surrogates
She just doesn't get it though-what else can I ask her to think about to get her to understand how exploitative this is?
I asked her, would it be ok for me to buy a 10 yr old child? No of course not, so why is it ok for wealthy people to buy babies?

She's nearly 18, I really need to help her critical thinking on this....thanks

It is illegal to separate a puppy or kitten from its mother at birth.....why does she think that is?

Why is it important to check adopters before they adopt a baby and put them through a process of checks, references, DBS, medical, financial, in depth interviews, training. Why don't social services just let people pick up a baby they are not related to and waltz off with it?

Tom Daley's partner has been arrested for assault for the second time. Do you think they would have been approved to adopt? The answer is no, so they buy a child instead.

Buying a human is the definition of slavery.

There is a huge amount of literature about the traumatising effect on babies of being removed at birth from their birth mothers even when this was the right thing to do for the babies safety.

Signpost her to the magdalen laundries in Ireland where babies were removed at or after birth and the legacy this left behind for mothers and babies.

Egg harvesting is very high risk. Young and healthy women with healthy ovaries in the USA who have done it for payment have reported issues such as ovary tortion and even strokes and long term infertility as a result of these procedure.

If you have had IVF, did you get told in detail the risks involved in hyper stimulating your ovaries for egg production?

@BiscuitLover3678 there are additional risks to a pregnancy where the egg is from a donor:

evidence.nihr.ac.uk/alert/assisted-reproduction-using-donated-eggs-has-higher-risk-of-complications-for-mothers-and-babies/

Didn't we get told this was all make believe the other day and that we really should read one specific study?

It is remarkable how assisted reproduction has now had numerous reviews of the results and they all seem to state that these pregnancies are high risk for the mother carrying the child and the child. I think sometimes if you are so heavily invested in the outcome, you need to dismiss the risk anyway you can.

Just popping on to say thank you to everyone who has posted links-I am slowly reading further & listening to pod casts & trying to consolidate my thoughts on exactly why this harms women AND children. Thank you for your responses.

Kristina Ozturk. Had 21 babies by different surrogate mothers within a year.

Why? Why is there any system that allows such flagrant abuse? That's not the image the surrogacy cheerleaders try to promote, it's horrendous. Those poirot babies.

Wait up.. what’s happened with Tom Daley’s partner?

Im curious as to what everyone on here thinks about paid science experiments. At uni it was common to do them for money. There was one where you could get paid £3k because it could impact your heart. Is that acceptable? (I didn’t do that one in the end but some people did).

I would caution my own children against this, however, if ethical, paid experiments in medical research to save lives is vastly different than paid surrogacy or egg retrieval. No one dies if they don't get a baby.

Yes but it was a very low risk.

Ang who can forget the hotel rooms full of uncollected babies during the first few months of the Ukrainian War

It’s incredibly upsetting. I don’t think anyone wanted them uncollected!

Next thing is gay men aren’t allowed to have babies with their female friends.

If you mean co-parenting, that's a positive way for unromantic friends to have share a family and all for that. Not just for gay men. Straight men can co-parent with a woman they aren't romantically involved with if all parties agree.

However, if you are trying to suggest that gay men are owed women's reproductive capabilities, oh hell to the no. No STRAIGHT man is owed that so not sure why we'd give special rights to some men over our bodies and not others. A straight man who wants children has the same problem a gay man does: he needs a woman willing to have a baby with him. A right for men to be parents would mean that if no woman volunteers to be a mom for you, then the state would be required to procure a woman for any man who wants a baby. That's Handmaid's Tale territory.

My sister and close friend went through egg retrieval for their own IVF and it was risky. My sister said never again and my friend suffered a great deal of health issues from the stimulation drugs.

In that you didn't have eggs extracted? Or they didn't aim for harvesting a large number?

I was told that it was rare generally. The risks were worth it to me. I had the highest amount of stimulation drugs possible. I knew what signs to look for. It was my choice. Just like the risk of a c section.
Some women also have more than factors than others.

@JustanotherMNSlapperTwat @Helleofabore

Here is a blog that discusses two sister to sister surrogacies.

One of the surrogate mothers had very bad prenatal anxiety and had counselling every week throughout.

stopsurrogacynowuk.org/2022/12/22/lets-talk-about-altruistic-surrogacy-from-co-founder-liz-purslow-long-read/

It's really not a sisterly thing to put your sister through unnecessary medical procedures like egg donation, IVF, pregnancy and childbirth and ask her to gift you a baby.

I'd donate a kidney to close loved ones in a heartbeat but that would be potentially life saving. No one does if they don't get a baby.

Here's a link to the podcast where one of the women discusses her surrogacy.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/at-your-cervix/id1530617581?i=1000527762344

I’m looking forward for reading this but generally I don’t think a sister would ask - wouldn’t it be that the wannabe surrogate offers? Akin to kidney donating.

It shouldn't be too hard to find appropriate articles - I read one about the exploitation of Ukrainian women recently.

Rich couples running rings around poor women her age - surely she could rustle up some empathy?

That was a very difficult read. All those women who suffered to try to carry a baby for a sister/friend. Such a fraught situation. I agree with the poster: shame on the gynecologist who suggested the girl's sisters be her surrogate - at age 17 no less!!!

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/16/world/europe/ukraine-surrogacy-war.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Mk0.kCkC.eT1HDm9Dv7Q3&smid=url-share

To discuss this you'll have to counter some basic arguments. A) if removing babies from birth mothers is the worst thing on earth then what about adoptions from birth. B) what about family members acting as surrogates for their family for no payment?

Obviously you don't have to read the foregoing ten pages...

Many adoptions at birth have profund ans lifelong impacts on mother and baby but sometimes these separations are necessary for safety and healthy of baby or due to mother's death or illnesses. Removing a child from its mother should only be done in extreme situations.

Adding this if anyone is interested. YouGov one day only poll on banning surrogacy (via FB).
https://x.com/surrogconcern/status/1745113121109533165?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA