First time poster - question about GC beliefs

[lovelycosyslippers]

This is my first time posting on this board. I am trying to work out what my position is in the trans/gender debate.

If you hold gender critical beliefs, do you accept that some people firmly believe they are born in the 'wrong' body, and have a right to live as the other sex (up to but not including the point where it would impinge on the rights of that other sex), possibly taking hormones and undergoing surgery? Is this a coherent position to hold?

Or do you believe these people should not ever be supported to live as the opposite sex? That doing so is always wrong?

Hope this question makes sense!

A lack of great mental health care in no reason to give non-evidenced surgical and hormonal interventions

Quite. It's about as useful as saying, 'Sorry, no penicillin for your infected leg ulcer. But have some tooth veneers and a crash course in Cantonese.'

I am not talking about stereotypes.

Do you not relate to men and women differerntly, based on your awareness of their maleness or femaleness?

One simple example might be flirting. Or the kids of friendships you are open to. Whether you chat with a stranger or tend not to because the meaning is different if it is a man or woman.

I think it's very naive to pretend people's sex is actually irrelevant in our social interactions, or if it isn't, that must be bad.

Though frankly, what if it is stereotypes - all that means is generalizations, which may be statistically true, or even almost ubiquitous, which we aren't aware, yet, if they are relevant to an individual. We all, when interacting with others, have to start somewhere. If we are making small talk with a 20 year old we might try different subjects than if it were an 80 year old. Sometime it turns out 20 year olds are big John Denver fans, but it really isn't negative when it turns out they are, and we guessed incorrectly.

Your reply seemed to reflect my intended meaning, but I misstyped so posted again to clarify / double check!!!!!

Maybe I am missing something, but "Whether you chat with a stranger or tend not to because the meaning is different if it is a man or woman" is all about the fact that men and women have different sexed bodies... and if they didn't they would all be "humans" and the meaning would be the same for all?

There is, sadly, a reason why female people learn early on in life to be cautious and highly aware of context before smiling at or giving eye contact to an unknown male, and how innocently nice social contact can lead swiftly to a direct sexual threat. I think I was about ten when I found that one out the hard way. I'd already several years past learning by then that being alone and away from observers while in possession of female biology was an incitement to some males to take immediate advantage of forced access for personal use.

This is the bottom line in all of it. Sexual threat. Which includes excitement at control, power and causing fear, and creating embarrassment and anxiety in females. Boundary breaking.

I asked for things that were not about (a) stereotypes or (b) sexed bodies. Flirting is about sexed bodies, 'awareness of their maleness or femaleness' is about sexed bodies.

I do indeed relate to men and women differently in various situations because they're actually men or women. Not because of an invisible idea in their head

Your post was about men 'living as a woman'. In situations where I would relate differently to men and women, I would relate to a man 'living as a woman' as a man.

Exactly. If I fancy women, and that's who I flirt with, I'm not going to fancy and flirt with Eddie Izzard or other transwomen, cos they're very clearly not women.

I've been very careful, since i became aware of what gender stereotyping is, to treat everyone the same and to be aware of what language i use. So if someone says "my doctor doesn't like that i'm too heavy" i'll say "oh, what does she suggest?" rather than the default "he". And i try always to talk about police officers, firefighters etc etc and not to assume the sex of someone if i'm not aware (because i know the specific person) or they're standing in front of me.

I don't flirt with women or men in a business setting. Or in a shop. Or anywhere unless flirting is something that might conceivably happen in that setting. And i am not above using my feminine whiles to get, say, the person in the car-parts place to replace my headlamp bulb, or windscreen wipers if they'll do it for free. Or to clinch a sales contract by acting the dumb woman on occasion (where the male counterpart has been patronising me). But outside of actually flirting with a man - nope, how i talk to someone isn't affected by their sex.