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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trevor Noah on Netflix

46 replies

MyNamechange2024 · 26/12/2023 12:33

Just watched the Netflix special. Not as funny as he used to be, then got to the bathroom thing. No-one is saying trans people can’t use public bathrooms Trevor. And you are using your male privilege to ignore the concerns that women have.

OP posts:
HereForTheFreeLunch · 26/12/2023 12:55

Yeah, I watched it yesterday and thought the same too.

Still enjoyed some of it though.

ResisterRex · 26/12/2023 13:01

Meh. Watch Ricky Gervais instead. There are two moments of truth in particular I know will annoy all the right people.

Happy Christmas! Wine

MyNamechange2024 · 26/12/2023 13:31

Happy Christmas to you too.

Yeah, watched Ricky last night. Have found an old Dave Allen DVD and laughing away at that.

OP posts:
NitroNine · 26/12/2023 18:37

It astonishes me that a man whose existence was illegal at birth; who lived under apartheid for the first 7 years of his life; & who has experienced truly horrific male violence in the form of DV (he moved to the States after he confronted his former stepfather for the near-fatal shooting of his mother & his own life was threatened); so willingly parrots the “most vulnerable…” spiel.

How his head hasn’t exploded from the cognitive dissonance I cannot fathom; & for a man who campaigns against VAWG it is particularly shameful. Those women & girls he claims to advocate for need refuges & support groups without [adult] males; yet he insists they in fact have no right to that. He’s team “reframe your trauma”. Noah is one of the very worst of the bunch because, while everyone should know better in that it’s hardly a secret that humans can’t change sex, he knows telling males to use the facilities for their own sex is absolutely nothing like apartheid/segregation & yet he nods along with those claims; & he speaks over the women & girls he claims to support when they are brave enough to object to being retraumatised by males in female spaces.

ChanelNo19EDT · 26/12/2023 18:41

I'm watching it now. Haven't smiled never mind laughed. Obviously some of the references are v American,like white people loving sweet Caroline. I dont get that. And he laboured that joke. Also white people love museums. Not exactly side-splitting.

DojaPhat · 26/12/2023 18:52

@NitroNine Exactly! What, after all, was the point of all the traumatic experiences he endured in his formative years if he wasn't going to eventually conclude by aligning his views with those of white gender critical women on Mumsnet. Beggars belief!

nauticant · 26/12/2023 22:10

How his head hasn’t exploded from the cognitive dissonance I cannot fathom

Let me answer that:

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. Upton Sinclair

crunchermuncher · 26/12/2023 23:12

I stayed watching this last week - ended up shouting at the telly and turning it off.

How dare he use his male privilege to tell us what should matter to women! Our rights aren't his to give away! I'm sure he wouldn't be very impressed with a white person telling him that they'd never experienced racism so it's not a thing. Because that would be inappropriate, offensive and illogical. How is his POV re women's spaces any different? The hypocrisy is staggering.

His salary doesn't have to be affected, he could just have avoided the issue. It's not compulsory to wade in.

In addition I thought it was much poorer material generally than his usual - not intelligent observations, just lazy. Very disappointing.

DojaPhat · 26/12/2023 23:41

I really wish this specific part of the forum had been around in my younger days when grappling with the finer points of feminism and more specifically intersectionality - I would have resolved my conundrums within an hour!

DojaPhat · 26/12/2023 23:42

I'm sure he wouldn't be very impressed with a white person telling him that they'd never experienced racism so it's not a thing. Because that would be inappropriate, offensive and illogical. How is his POV re women's spaces any different? The hypocrisy is staggering.

Statements like these give so much away than what they purport to express. Really insightful imo.

crunchermuncher · 26/12/2023 23:48

DojaPhat · 26/12/2023 23:42

I'm sure he wouldn't be very impressed with a white person telling him that they'd never experienced racism so it's not a thing. Because that would be inappropriate, offensive and illogical. How is his POV re women's spaces any different? The hypocrisy is staggering.

Statements like these give so much away than what they purport to express. Really insightful imo.

I'm genuinely interested in what you think. Can you say some more about this?

DojaPhat · 26/12/2023 23:58

There's a lot to it cruch but it's really something to state quite confidently that a man of South African origin - with the history that entails, that he wouldn't be "impressed", at the notion that 'racism isn't a thing from a white person', then liken it to the hypocrisy of ostensibly white women's cries of 'women's spaces' and declare it hypocrisy. The extremely narrow lens of that entire thought process and to see absolutely nothing remotely questionable about it takes a certain kind of world view shared by a specific demographic. More or less for those reasons is why there can never be a shared unity or goals among various demographics of women. - Another thread, not sure on this one or the Feminist one bemoaned the lack of solidarity among women, i.e. going against causes which would be good for them or women more generally. Your post is not new in representing that which I speak of, but every now and then I like to check back in to see things haven't changed. My own views about that would probably get me (rightly) deleted from the forum but I do like knowing I haven't written off an entire group misguidedly.

DojaPhat · 27/12/2023 00:00

r.e. women's spaces - I'd prefer individual cubicles for all, and that has zero to do with my views on transwomen. I've been in enough changing rooms to know why that works best for the comfort of all women - and by all women I mean the sex category of women.

NotBadConsidering · 27/12/2023 00:02

I remembered when he had McKinnon/Ivy on The Daily Show. It beggared belief to me that he could sit across from a middle-aged white man spouting nonsense about “sport is a human right” and think Ivy was part of an oppressed minority.

DailyCake · 27/12/2023 00:21

After enjoying Ricky Gervais last night, decided to try Trevor Noah tonight but had to turn it off as it wasn't funny in the least. In addition to his trans content, I was not amused when he mimicked a Jamaican accent to represent the people of the Caribbean. He seems to think it's funny to constantly portray Caribbeans as weed smoking, Jamaicans. It's not, and he also needs to work on his faux Jamaican accent.😡

AtrociousCircumstance · 27/12/2023 00:25

What a disappointment. Ugh.

ResisterRex · 27/12/2023 07:37

Don't think that's the first time he's done that, Cake.

EdithStourton · 27/12/2023 07:56

More or less for those reasons is why there can never be a shared unity or goals among various demographics of women.
<Head explodes>
I'm pretty sure different demographics of women have shared goals and struggled for their rights over the past century or more...

NotBadConsidering · 27/12/2023 08:02

DailyCake · 27/12/2023 00:21

After enjoying Ricky Gervais last night, decided to try Trevor Noah tonight but had to turn it off as it wasn't funny in the least. In addition to his trans content, I was not amused when he mimicked a Jamaican accent to represent the people of the Caribbean. He seems to think it's funny to constantly portray Caribbeans as weed smoking, Jamaicans. It's not, and he also needs to work on his faux Jamaican accent.😡

This is why Gervais is so smart. He jokes about the appropriateness of doing “the voice” a few times, subverting the idea.

crunchermuncher · 27/12/2023 09:18

DojaPhat · 26/12/2023 23:58

There's a lot to it cruch but it's really something to state quite confidently that a man of South African origin - with the history that entails, that he wouldn't be "impressed", at the notion that 'racism isn't a thing from a white person', then liken it to the hypocrisy of ostensibly white women's cries of 'women's spaces' and declare it hypocrisy. The extremely narrow lens of that entire thought process and to see absolutely nothing remotely questionable about it takes a certain kind of world view shared by a specific demographic. More or less for those reasons is why there can never be a shared unity or goals among various demographics of women. - Another thread, not sure on this one or the Feminist one bemoaned the lack of solidarity among women, i.e. going against causes which would be good for them or women more generally. Your post is not new in representing that which I speak of, but every now and then I like to check back in to see things haven't changed. My own views about that would probably get me (rightly) deleted from the forum but I do like knowing I haven't written off an entire group misguidedly.

Theres definitely a lot to it (and little typed out messages aren't the best way to have nuanced discussions). It would be helpful to explore this logically step by step so that I can understand your POV and define where our views diverge.

To clarify my statements, I'm not trying to claim that women's experiences with men are equal to / similar to/as bad as the experiences of black people under apartheid - that would be offensive nonsense. Neither am I saying that all women's experiences are the same. Neither am I saying that all black people's experiences are all the same.

What I am saying is that there appear to be some parallels that can be drawn between in terms of how the oppressor class relates to the oppressed for different access of oppression (important note, not saying they're 'the same').

Im then going on to question why this seems to be acceptable on one axis (sex, sexism) but unacceptable and rightly so on the other (race, racism). Humans brains are hard wired to notice patterns, it's how we make sense of the world, and I think it can be useful to explore what these patterns might be telling us , as long as we are mindful to not make assumptions from these patterns.

So, Trevor, as a member of the oppressor class of sex (men), felt it was reasonable for him to speak about and minimise the experiences of women, the oppressed class of sex (women) Do we agree that that was what he was doing? If not, can you offer an alternative explanation?

So, I wondered why he (and some others) thinks that is an acceptable way to behave?

I was trying to highlight the unacceptability of allowing the powerful group to speak on behalf of the powerless group by drawing a parallel and exploring why one is acceptable and the other isn't, when these two things appear to have some similarities (note: not saying they're the same). I possibly expressed this parallel in a clumsy way.

You're right, I don't know that he wouldn't be impressed by a white person denying racism (I admit, that's an assumption). I still stand by that as a reasonable assumption though, as I would imagine that a member of any group would likely get annoyed at someone who is not a member of that group trying to deny the concerns of that group on their behalf.

If you think that's an unreasonable assumption, can you say more about why? And to aid my understanding of your POV, is it the assumption or the parallel that is the issue? Or both?

I think it's interesting that you seem to be implying that concern about women only spaces is an issue that only white women care about ('white women's cries of women's spaces' was how you put it).To say that its something only white women are interested in would seem to be denying the experience of non white women who have been affected by VAWG, and the experience of some religious non white women whose faith precludes them from sharing washing/ changing/toileting spaces with natal males (disclaimer: I realise that some white women are also religious, however this particular facet of the issue likely disproportionately affects non white women).

All of those women's experiences were rubbished and minimised by Trevor Noah in the interests of a cheap laugh, not just the white women's experiences.

I don't know whether it was your intention, but there seems to be a suggestion in your comment that wanting women only spaces is somehow akin to racism. Apologies if that's not what you meant; maybe you could clarify if so? Because it seems like an attempt at a subtle smear on a legally protected belief /point of view. It seems that its OK to draw a parallel between racism and sexism when it suits ones argument, but not the other way around?

My starting point, which I stand by, was this: I don't think its ever OK for a man to minimise and deny women's concerns and experiences, especially as "comedy".

crunchermuncher · 27/12/2023 09:20

Doh. For 'access' read 'axes' in paragraph 3 (if anyone is still reading).

Merrymouse · 27/12/2023 09:42

Sorry, haven’t seen the show but would be grateful if somebody could clarify - Was Noah himself specifically comparing single sex spaces to apartheid?

dudsville · 27/12/2023 09:48

I watched that a few days ago and I kind of felt like I was being shouted at and critised and i didn't laugh once.

I loved the previous Ricky Gervais special, but the new one, armageddon, i just had to stop half way through because of a very long winded stint about what vulnerable children are willing to do to get a dog.

Genericusername2 · 27/12/2023 10:54

Ricky Gervais wasn't joking about what vulnerable children would do to get a dog.

The joke was about himself. And where he gets his humour. He sets the joke up by talking about his mum, and how she knew not to tell him what a 'pedo' was and instead scare him out of using those toilets.

Because his mum knew him, and he talks about how busy and amazing she was and that she instinctively knew that telling him the truth wouldn't keep him safe.

The joke is about HIM, he says what HE would have done to get a puppy. And if you know RG he's famously a massive animal lover. It's widely known. So it's a joke on how much he loves animals and would be willing to do horrific things as a 7 year old to have a puppy.

You seem to have really missed the point of the joke.

Which weirdly if your a RG fan is exactly what he talks about in all of his specials. Including his last one.

Lalalanding · 27/12/2023 10:55

I turned it off after the bathroom thing. It wasn’t funny before then either. I like Trevor Noah but that just wasn’t funny.