"Transphobic bullying is rife": 15 y/o trans boy's view of coming out at school

[ButterflyHatched]

A rare and refreshing example of the mainstream media actually publishing a young trans person's own words on the subject of their own existence and how the government's draft guidance is likely to affect the people it directly pertains to.

‘Transphobic bullying is rife’: a 15-year-old trans boy’s view of coming out at school | Transgender | The Guardian

It’s made me think that it’s the kind of thing that you’d find in a rather well used hot tub 🤢.

You wouldn't catch me dabbing it on my pulse points,that's for sure.

Quite. Especially when they spout all that sexist bollocks, sorry feminism, about girls not liking football.

Kids are sick of being shown the emperor in the emperor’s new clothes. When they point out the emperor isn’t really any different or special it is bullying. The whole trans ideology is setting kids up to be bullied because it is based on nonsense and lies.

Has anyone else got the 80s Calvin Klein Obsession advert in their head now?

"Immutable Sex Essence.......Ah, the smell of it!"

I think it would a best selling perfume on some pretty niche webstores. It can arrive in plain packaging and everything.

@ButterflyHatched

Your line of argument is profoundly unfair to people who didn't have those opportunities, implying that it is somehow sinister or otherwise unvirtuous to try and help future generations have wider opportunities in a more supportive social climate.

Wanting to help future generations of "trans" people isn't bad in itself.

However, there is the risk of ideological blindness leading people to act in unethical and harmful ways.

So perhaps ignoring the need for more research; or ignoring the needs of other students.

If anyone wants a "more supportive social climate", I think we need to consider exactly what that means; if it means trans-activists trying to force things on everyone else, then that's probably risking a backlash where trans identified people could lose sympathy.

Of course we need to find better ways of dealing with bullying just in general.

I think you mean correctly sexing. There's no such thing as misgendering, since "gender" is made-up nonsense. And saying someone looks like a boy/ young man (or girl/ woman) because that is what they ARE is not "being rude about their appearance" It's something that's obvious to anyone who looks at them.

@ButterflyHatched

If a person has a belief that defies the direct lived reality of others and demands that they be treated in a particular way due to their genital configuration, ignoring their interiority and any hint of nuance or subjectivity because of an ideological adherence to the concept of an immutable sex essence, why on earth should any person believe anything else they say is credible and based on a balanced view of the world?

With this "direct lived reality" that people claim, can we not just reverse it?

Can't we just say, "my direct lived reality is that trans women don't appear to be genuinely women on the psychological level whether that's stereotypes or whatever it is, they just don’t seem authentic"?

Why doesn't that kind of "direct lived reality" carry just as much weight?

Or should "direct lived reality" carry more weight than reasoned argument about the issue?

Is it not suspicious if the "no debate" side wants to appeal to their subjective experience?

(And presumably wouldn't want the other side appealing to their own subjective experience that they don't think trans identified people are "authentic".)

And what about religious people that would claim to have "direct lived experience" that their religious beliefs are confirmed?

I'm all for religious freedom in the private sphere; but would we be happy if they started arguing that they should have a new type of special rights, and we shouldn't be denying their "direct lived experience" that would justify this claim for special rights?

Why doesn't that kind of "direct lived reality" carry just as much weight?

I know this one!

Because only men’s “direct lived reality” counts.

I'm seeing Johnny Depp burying his dick in the desert under the watchful eye of a hungry wolf.

Wild thing. You make my immutable sex essence sing....

I'm seeing Sex Panther, (it's illegal in 9 countries though)

Is the UK one of those countries?

Please say it isn't.

Hm. What behaviours would you say make people authentically 'genuinely women on the psychological level'?

Do you also demand people prove they are authentically, genuinely feeling sad, tired or hungry in order to take them seriously?

I would never say that. Psychology doesn't determine sex.

Hmm - well this is what can happen to some people who uncritically believe people who claim to be in difficulties and make no checks as to the credibility of the claims. A different scenario but accepting people who self ID as wealthy, young, needing funds, in love with you with no proof can be very problematic:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4966231-to-think-some-romance-scam-victims-are-simply-stupid?flipped=1

bleeding Nora - there are NO psychological behaviours that make one a woman. The only way to be a woman is to be born with a body designed around the production of large gametes. That’s it, that’s all.

The prior guidance was written only with trans activist's views taken account of. It didn't take into account the majority of children.

Unsurprising to see another male 'feminist' who centres men in his 'feminism'.

What are we counting as bullying? I think kids refusing to tell lies or use pronouns is not bullying. Unpleasant constant insults is bullying, hitting someone or nicking things from them is bullying. Not believing someone can change sex is just true.

"You are going to regret transtioning because of how we are going to treat you for doing so." is actually quite a compelling and persuasive argument, but not for the right reasons I'm afraid.

I'm seeing Johnny Depp burying his dick in the desert under the watchful eye of a hungry wolf.
'Sausage'.

You missed the point, ButterflyHatched. The point is that kids are going to point out no kid should get preferential treatment and that does not constitute bullying. Reality is that kids are not going to accept another kid is the opposite sex and don't want to share changing rooms and toilets with them.

Kids that transition their gender need to learn to accept there will be limits to what other people will accept from them. I actually think your position of letting kids believe they will change their sex and everyone will always go along with that, is very damaging. Not just because it teaches kids they can demand the unreasonable from others and adults will support them, but also that society will accept them for what they are not.
Once in the real world and no adults to enforce those ideas onto others and it all comes crashing down,

You can't force people to see you as the opposite sex. The best that you can hope for is that they'll pretend to spare your feelings.

Expecting kids to do this is even more unrealistic.