Page 2 | NHS bmi

MarthaMayWho · 2023-12-09T22:41:42+00:00

I was well versed on the NHS Bmi. You used to have to put in male or female and your ethnicity. Changing the sex used to massively skew whether you were in the health zone or not. NHS bmi tool now has no option to choose sex so now a blanket bmi. Surely this is going to cause problems?

Original poster

MarthaMayWho · 10/12/2023 12:02

Yes but again, as a large waisted individual even when I am a heady size eight or lower and when I had a severe eating disorder I measured large, so it's in no way useful to me and actually damaging for people with a similar shape to me. Could easily induce an eating disorder.

OP posts:

RomeoandJomeo · 10/12/2023 13:14

Quiregirl · 10/12/2023 07:09

It's changed, and very recently I'd say. I check my BMI using this tool and last did so a couple of weeks ago. It has ALWAYS asked for sex and provided a clickable link to 'why do we ask this' information for the question.

I agree... but I've also experimented with saying I was male, and it made no difference either to my BMI (which of course it shouldn't, as the calculation is exactly the same) or the advice given as a result of the calculation. Given this, and the fact that BMI is a pretty blunt instrument, I think it makes sense to stop asking for sex.

Deathbyfluffy · 10/12/2023 13:20

MarthaMayWho · 10/12/2023 11:18

Fenlandias point totally disregarded those of us who use bmi as a running tracker whilst losing weight as I explained above.

If you look on the coloured tracker I am now a great deal 'healthier' than I was last week as a visual tool. I'm not. I've lost nothing this week.

Regardless of what's best for the population blah blah, as a visual tool it now makes me look far more into the healthy weight section than previously, yet I'm still fat.

I used it before and it worked really well for me. As I said, yes maybe it doesn't work for everyone but I find it much less demoralising than waist measurements and much easier to see progress.

It's become less accurate than previously for those of us who used it this way and that's not ok. I'm not really interested in whether or not waist measurements is the most recent trend or whatever, as my body shows, not every method works for everybody.

I mean, great as an ego boost but if I stopped slimming now I'd do my long-term health damage. But I suppose that doesn't matter because I am a woman eh, and the little tweaks only effect women.

I work for a company that does a lot of back-end work for health providers - including things like building tools such as the BMI calculator.

The teams actively involved in these things aren’t men only - there’s a lot of women now from coding right through to testing and implementation.
It’s a bit silly to say it doesn’t matter because you’re a woman, especially when BMI is a single measure for both men and women.

Melroses · 10/12/2023 13:21

I looked at that a few days ago because DH has lost weight and I am convinced he is underweight. Yet it has him in a healthy weight category 🤷‍♀️

I hope actual doctors don't take any notice of that.

RomeoandJomeo · 10/12/2023 13:27

RomeoandJomeo · 10/12/2023 13:14

I agree... but I've also experimented with saying I was male, and it made no difference either to my BMI (which of course it shouldn't, as the calculation is exactly the same) or the advice given as a result of the calculation. Given this, and the fact that BMI is a pretty blunt instrument, I think it makes sense to stop asking for sex.

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I've just checked the app, and the advice had also changed - whereas it previously warned that I was at the bottom end of the healthy weight range and I should avoid losing weight, it now just tells me I'm a healthy weight.
Seems to me that these changes are a tacit acknowledgement that it's all a bit meaningless, and they are moving away from making personalised recommendations based on the number that the algorithm churns out.

Original poster

MarthaMayWho · 10/12/2023 14:58

Hmmm yeah, I'm sorry I don't buy it.
If it's a useless measurement why only get rid of sex, why is race still there?

And again, considering the current climate of removing any mention of sex being removed from NHS literature I'm inclined to be cynical.

There is no perfect measure that always works, and unless you are a body builder bmi works well for many people. Just as waist size I'm sure works for all the not apple shaped people.

OP posts:

DojaPhat · 10/12/2023 15:19

@MarthaMayWho Race isn't there, it would be ridiculous if it were but there are options to select ethnic background.

Original poster

MarthaMayWho · 10/12/2023 15:22

Semantics?

OP posts:

Polis · 10/12/2023 15:25

MilkChocolateCookie · 10/12/2023 07:28

I don't see why it matters? It's the same calculation for men and women isn't it?

As far as I remember from playing with it before it changed, the number was the same but the accompanying advice given varied depending on sex. The same as it does with ethnicity.

slore · 10/12/2023 15:34

Fenlandia · 09/12/2023 23:10

BMI is a nonsense metric anyway, I'm surprised the NHS is still using it. Women in particular have a huge range of body shapes and composition due to breasts and hips

(https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/265215#Waist-size-linked-to-diabetes-risk,-regardless-of-BMI)

As the link says, waist size is a much better guide to people's health risks than a metric designed by a 19th century Belgian mathematician who was literally trying to find out the "average man" - not invent a health measure.

Breasts don't weight much. BMI is a useful metric, as body fat, which is the only true way to tell, is hard to measure accurately without certain equipment. BMI actually tends to overestimate the number of healthy people because many within the healthy range actually have too high body fat.

JellySaurus · 10/12/2023 15:55

MilkChocolateCookie · 10/12/2023 07:28

I don't see why it matters? It's the same calculation for men and women isn't it?

The calculation is the same, but shouldn't the thresholds be different? A slim woman of the same height as a slim man would probably weigh less than him, as men generally have a greater muscle to fat ratio than women do, and muscle weighs more than fat. So the BMI value which gave 'healthy' for him, could be 'overweight' for her, and 'healthy' for her could be 'underweight' for him.

At least, that's how I have always understood it, and why they asked for your sex.

MilkChocolateCookie · 10/12/2023 16:36

JellySaurus · 10/12/2023 15:55

The calculation is the same, but shouldn't the thresholds be different? A slim woman of the same height as a slim man would probably weigh less than him, as men generally have a greater muscle to fat ratio than women do, and muscle weighs more than fat. So the BMI value which gave 'healthy' for him, could be 'overweight' for her, and 'healthy' for her could be 'underweight' for him.

At least, that's how I have always understood it, and why they asked for your sex.

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I don't think the thresholds are different though? Over 25 is overweight, over 30 is obese, for both men and women.

ChristmasPuddy · 10/12/2023 16:46

That’s why BMI is such a poor metric, it doesn’t take any of that into account!

Original poster

MarthaMayWho · 10/12/2023 18:22

Better than my partner.

Only one threshold and it's 'fine'.

If I left losing weight up to supportive family members and waist measurements I'd still be obese

OP posts:

pronounsbundlebundle · 10/12/2023 18:36

Completely with you OP.

Waist size it utterly shit as a health measure if the NHS has failed you in identifying and doing anything about your diastasis recti as is my case and many women I know.

I'm less fat and weigh less than I was when younger but have a bigger waist size because my stomach muscles are - I suspect at this point - permanently separated.

I only found out because I went to an exercise class about 5 years after having DD2 and was doing an exercise and the instructor said 'wait a second, your stomach muscles look.... weird'. Then went on to tell me to do all the same exercises and I have been ever since and bugger all has changed. Any advice from anyone who's managed to do anything about it very welcome.

pronounsbundlebundle · 10/12/2023 18:41

Yet again something that only affects women so we can fuck off, presumably, and don't count despite being the ones that by a large majority do all the unpaid caring and shit work, so it being quite significant for things like social care if our health gives out quite young.

OhcantthInkofaname · 10/12/2023 18:47

MilkChocolateCookie · 10/12/2023 07:28

I don't see why it matters? It's the same calculation for men and women isn't it?

Because naturally men's bones, muscles, organs, and body tissue are more voluminous in males than females. There is a difference. Using the old MetLife body composition tables is a better indicator than BMI.

Pipistrellus · 10/12/2023 18:48

The thresholds have always been the same for men and women

Under 18.5 underweight
18.5 to 25 healthy
25 to 30 overweight
30+ obese

As far as I know it's only people of Asian ethnicity where there are lower thresholds for overweight and obese

OhcantthInkofaname · 10/12/2023 18:57

Pipistrellus · 10/12/2023 18:48

The thresholds have always been the same for men and women

Under 18.5 underweight
18.5 to 25 healthy
25 to 30 overweight
30+ obese

As far as I know it's only people of Asian ethnicity where there are lower thresholds for overweight and obese

No, they have not always been the same. It was 20-27 norm. 27- 32 overweight, obese over 32. This all changed mid 1995.

Pipistrellus · 10/12/2023 19:09

OhcantthInkofaname · 10/12/2023 18:57

No, they have not always been the same. It was 20-27 norm. 27- 32 overweight, obese over 32. This all changed mid 1995.

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As long as I'd known about BMI then, the past 25 years! It certainly hasn't changed anytime recently so I don't know what the OP is talking about.

If you use metric you don't need any website, just type weight in kg divided by height in m divided by height in m into any calculator. For example 55÷1.65÷1.65

Minesril · 10/12/2023 19:18

It's also no longer asking how active you are! I do strength training five days a week so am not too bothered about my BMI being 26 as i pass the 'waist test' with flying colours.

Original poster

MarthaMayWho · 10/12/2023 19:18

Oh great. Maths homework. Just what I wanted for Christmas...

I'd rather stay fat thanks.

OP posts:

ArthurbellaScott · 10/12/2023 19:31

pronounsbundlebundle · 10/12/2023 18:36

Completely with you OP.

Waist size it utterly shit as a health measure if the NHS has failed you in identifying and doing anything about your diastasis recti as is my case and many women I know.

I'm less fat and weigh less than I was when younger but have a bigger waist size because my stomach muscles are - I suspect at this point - permanently separated.

I only found out because I went to an exercise class about 5 years after having DD2 and was doing an exercise and the instructor said 'wait a second, your stomach muscles look.... weird'. Then went on to tell me to do all the same exercises and I have been ever since and bugger all has changed. Any advice from anyone who's managed to do anything about it very welcome.

Pilates can help with diastasis recti. You probably need to get a proper one to one assessment from a good pilates teacher.

And/or, a physio. Your GP should be able to refer you.

Pipistrellus · 10/12/2023 19:34

MarthaMayWho · 10/12/2023 19:18

Oh great. Maths homework. Just what I wanted for Christmas...

I'd rather stay fat thanks.

It's primary school arithmetic 🙄

dudsville · 10/12/2023 19:43

Whoa, suddenly I'm in the healthy bmi range...