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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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ResisterRex · 08/12/2023 21:56

rogdmum · 08/12/2023 21:04

Scottish Labour are being very coy and quiet. No official response on X/Twitter and not a peep from even the most vocal supporters. It’s almost as if they’ve all been told to keep their mouths shut…

Kemi isn't. But we will have to wait a little longer

"One day when time allows, I will tell the story of all the work that had to take place across govt on this issue.

But for now…I’m just glad that the govt’s decision to block the SNP govt’s bill has been vindicated by this ruling. 😊"

x.com/kemibadenoch/status/1733171850568499669?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

ArthurbellaScott · 08/12/2023 22:55

rogdmum · 08/12/2023 21:04

Scottish Labour are being very coy and quiet. No official response on X/Twitter and not a peep from even the most vocal supporters. It’s almost as if they’ve all been told to keep their mouths shut…

That is interesting. What about yon new one in Rutherglen, he was very keen?

ArthurbellaScott · 08/12/2023 22:57

He's not said a peep. That's really odd.

https://twitter.com/mgshanks

https://twitter.com/mgshanks

IcakethereforeIam · 08/12/2023 23:07

IcakethereforeIam · 08/12/2023 20:26

If it was the other way up you could put a star on the top, it would be a Xmas merkin 🎄

Perhaps we should pitch it to John Lewis for next year's Xmas ads?

rogdmum · 08/12/2023 23:19

ArthurbellaScott · 08/12/2023 22:57

He's not said a peep. That's really odd.

https://twitter.com/mgshanks

Ian Murray is disappointed and someone found an irate tweet from Mercedes:

https://x.com/labourmercedes/status/1733131041471074306?s=61&t=8CxL28ZCFDq66yuIWhY6_Q

She clearly didn’t get the memo to pretend nothing happened today.

https://x.com/labourmercedes/status/1733131041471074306?s=61&t=8CxL28ZCFDq66yuIWhY6_Q

sourdoughismyreligion · 09/12/2023 01:01

Will this ruling have any implications for a UK government who may attempt to pass a self-ID law?

IwantToRetire · 09/12/2023 01:14

Will this ruling have any implications for a UK government who may attempt to pass a self-ID law?

No because if Westminsster did pass a law allowing self id then all parts of the UK would then be covered by that. So then Scotland, NI and Wales would no longer need to pass their own laws for self, and there would be no legal conflict.

And this is probably what will happen when Labour gets into power.

So we might as well enjoy this brief period of the limited protection re GR that the current law allows.

Waitwhat23 · 09/12/2023 06:54

Haikus inspired by yesterday -

The GRR Bill
Is finished. It has to be,
As sense has prevailed.

The Bute House nonsense!
Humza, grow a backbone, tell
The Greens to fuck off.

No public money
Should be used to challenge this
Folk have had enough.

It is fun to view
The tantrums going on though.
Cry me a river.

ArthurbellaScott · 09/12/2023 07:48

https://archive.is/PuTfH

Susan Dalgety in the Scotsman.

highame · 09/12/2023 08:00

The silence of Labour is really worrying, I think 'no debate' is driving this silence. At some point, Labour will have to come clean and I will be watching every word uttered and what is written, for loopholes that will inevitably make their appearance in manifestos and other communications.

All political parties are going to have to make statements at some point. Vigilance and debate, otherwise our moments of gladness will be flushed down the toilet as easily as you can say TWAW.

SerotinaPickeler · 09/12/2023 08:15

IwantToRetire · 09/12/2023 01:14

Will this ruling have any implications for a UK government who may attempt to pass a self-ID law?

No because if Westminsster did pass a law allowing self id then all parts of the UK would then be covered by that. So then Scotland, NI and Wales would no longer need to pass their own laws for self, and there would be no legal conflict.

And this is probably what will happen when Labour gets into power.

So we might as well enjoy this brief period of the limited protection re GR that the current law allows.

Surely it sets in legal terms a strongly worded precedent that making self ID easier is not risk free and it would be right to question this? Lady Haldane said the UK Gov would have needed to risk assess this for the likelihood of fraudulent applications, so this precent will apply also to any forthcoming UK Gov? A good thing then.

SerotinaPickeler · 09/12/2023 08:16

Precedent!!

guinnessguzzler · 09/12/2023 08:21

Agree. I think the whole fiasco has certainly brought to light issues with the proposed approach, both for the public and politicians, who either hadn't actually thought very hard about it or thought they could get away with waving it through. If Labour do decide to have a go at this, they definitely won't be able to do so within a culture of no debate and assumption that only bigots don't support it. The debate has moved on.

Waitwhat23 · 09/12/2023 08:30

From Susan Dalgety's article today -

'Every green, white and purple ribbon tied around a tree, every rally, every hashtag, every email ignored by MSPs, every court case won or lost, has been worth it. Armed with nothing more than righteous anger and logic, a small army of women took on the Holyrood elite and won.

There are too many women to name, too many groups to single out, but they all know who they are and what they did, whether it was resigning a comfortable government position as Ash Regan did, or risking a global reputation like JK Rowling. Women sacrificed careers, lost lifelong friendships, got into debt or risked arrest to campaign against a bad piece of legislation that should never have got past the consultation stage. Women who had never studied law became legal experts, raising cases in the highest court in the land. Women who had never taken an interest in politics became seasoned campaigners. Women who had gone through life quietly found their voice.'

ResisterRex · 09/12/2023 08:41

highame · 09/12/2023 08:00

The silence of Labour is really worrying, I think 'no debate' is driving this silence. At some point, Labour will have to come clean and I will be watching every word uttered and what is written, for loopholes that will inevitably make their appearance in manifestos and other communications.

All political parties are going to have to make statements at some point. Vigilance and debate, otherwise our moments of gladness will be flushed down the toilet as easily as you can say TWAW.

As KPSS said on the GRC recognition order...

Listen to Labour's response to @ KemiBadenoch and believe them. Because this is a foretaste of what things will be like if they get into power.

x.com/noxyinxxprisons/status/1732443767817347481?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

...and that's from when they had to respond, as well.

IcakethereforeIam · 09/12/2023 08:45

Do you have a link to Labour's response?

ResisterRex · 09/12/2023 09:03

IcakethereforeIam · 09/12/2023 08:45

Do you have a link to Labour's response?

That was about the gender recognition order so not the same topic (though related) but the Hansard is here

hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2023-12-06/debates/E7306EC2-EFCB-4331-BD82-F01FDF67CCBF/GenderRecognition

Point being, this was what they came up with when they HAD to respond. I assume you could simply send no one to the House but presumably that's never happened before?

And what's come from Labour since the S35 decision - and let's not forget, Scottish Labour was whipped to vote for the GRR - seems to be...<crickets>

rogdmum · 09/12/2023 09:04

There hasn’t been a formal response, Icake . Ian Murray has been quoted in the press saying it was "disappointing this legalisation ended in the courts but this ruling should be respected"

Thats it from Scottish Labour just now

rogdmum · 09/12/2023 09:05

Well other than the nutcase Mercedes Villalba who went on a Twitter rant, but I don’t think that counts. 😂

ArthurbellaScott · 09/12/2023 09:09

Waitwhat23 · 09/12/2023 08:30

From Susan Dalgety's article today -

'Every green, white and purple ribbon tied around a tree, every rally, every hashtag, every email ignored by MSPs, every court case won or lost, has been worth it. Armed with nothing more than righteous anger and logic, a small army of women took on the Holyrood elite and won.

There are too many women to name, too many groups to single out, but they all know who they are and what they did, whether it was resigning a comfortable government position as Ash Regan did, or risking a global reputation like JK Rowling. Women sacrificed careers, lost lifelong friendships, got into debt or risked arrest to campaign against a bad piece of legislation that should never have got past the consultation stage. Women who had never studied law became legal experts, raising cases in the highest court in the land. Women who had never taken an interest in politics became seasoned campaigners. Women who had gone through life quietly found their voice.'

Thanks, the link I posted that got auto hid is to an archive of that article.

'Armed with nothing more than righteous anger and logic,'

😁

Waitwhat23 · 09/12/2023 09:19

From the Herald -

'Humza Yousaf is facing a high-profile clash with his Green partners in government after suffering an emphatic court defeat over Holyrood gender reforms.

The Greens urged the First Minister to appeal against the ruling, but many SNP MSPs and MPs want him to accept it and move on, especially with a general election approaching.'

guinnessguzzler · 09/12/2023 09:23

Righteous anger and logic really is perfect.

Think most people would see continuing to flog this particular dead horse as a massive waste of time and energy when there are so many more important things to address. And whilst many of the SNP leadership may be somewhat limited in strategic thinking, they're not completely daft.

ArthurbellaScott · 09/12/2023 09:30

The dead horse is nothing to do with gender or trans people- it was seen as a useful lever to give Scotgov another reason to pillory Westminster. Blocking it is exactly what they'd wanted, to allow them to wail about being oppressed by WM without actually having to do anything to address Scotlands issues.

What the hadn't taken into account was that women all over Scotland woke up to the fact they had flung a dead horse on the table and started loudly saying they did not want this horse. Now a sizeable majority of voters are pointing at the horse and asking if the SNP are utterly mad.

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