Nick Fletcher tells Gillian Keegan some home truths

InThePottingShed · 2023-12-06T11:19:45+00:00

This morning at the Education Select Committee. Well done Nick! CFW will have the whole section on their YouTube channel soon. [[https://twitter.com/CforWomenUK/status/1732357309085438049 Part of Nick's contribution]]

WickedSerious · 06/12/2023 11:47

Well said that man.

Original poster

InThePottingShed · 06/12/2023 12:01

Full segment on the guidance now here:

CFW23.12.06EducationSelectCommitteeSchoolsGuidance

https://youtu.be/ZFIzjetDxOw

OP posts:

Froodwithatowel · 06/12/2023 12:11

Well said Nick Fletcher.

FrancescaContini · 06/12/2023 12:18

Thank you for telling it how it is - “damaging noise” and for the emphasis on safeguarding children, Nick.

I couldn’t help but notice the young woman in the background trying to hide a smile as she taps on her keyboard and takes sips of water. I wonder why she’s smiling…

Froodwithatowel · 06/12/2023 12:20

If it's all non statutory non binding optional fluffy guidance that does help but doesn't do anything drastic like helping....

I'm increasingly thinking heavy paperwork needs to be required to socially transition a pupil, all signed, named staff, copies filed with the LA, a big process with a lot of practical accountability for the adults involved. Considering how much bumph has to be filled out to take six children to the park across the road for ten minutes in a lesson, or to get additional staffing support for a child with serious SEND why is this taken so much less seriously? The paperwork burden would slow this down, the accountability might make adults think, the process and requirement of evidencing how that decision was reached and signed to say the adults involved have considered the risks and possible negative impacts might make adults a bit less keen to rush into this. And the paperwork would then provide the necessary evidence for the kid to later sue the living daylights out of the people and authority involved if they come to regret the situation they were helped into.

Considering how some of these kids may come to be affected, the compensation involved may not just be a gesture, it may be badly needed income for someone made too ill and incapacitated before they reached adulthood to be able to earn a living.

BonfireLady · 06/12/2023 12:55

Froodwithatowel · 06/12/2023 12:20

If it's all non statutory non binding optional fluffy guidance that does help but doesn't do anything drastic like helping....

I'm increasingly thinking heavy paperwork needs to be required to socially transition a pupil, all signed, named staff, copies filed with the LA, a big process with a lot of practical accountability for the adults involved. Considering how much bumph has to be filled out to take six children to the park across the road for ten minutes in a lesson, or to get additional staffing support for a child with serious SEND why is this taken so much less seriously? The paperwork burden would slow this down, the accountability might make adults think, the process and requirement of evidencing how that decision was reached and signed to say the adults involved have considered the risks and possible negative impacts might make adults a bit less keen to rush into this. And the paperwork would then provide the necessary evidence for the kid to later sue the living daylights out of the people and authority involved if they come to regret the situation they were helped into.

Considering how some of these kids may come to be affected, the compensation involved may not just be a gesture, it may be badly needed income for someone made too ill and incapacitated before they reached adulthood to be able to earn a living.

Edited

An excellent point.

Sadly, I suspect that a lot of this is going to end up this way. We're currently still sleepwalking in to the medical scandal, but at some point in the near to mid future there will be a tipping point as the detransitioners become more numerous and less easy for the news organisations to ignore.

Tallisker · 06/12/2023 13:07

She has just said that puberty blockers are only given to adults and cannot be offered to children, she hasn't a clue. Why would you give puberty blockers to someone who has long completed puberty? Beggars belief.

I should probably watch more just in case I've jumped the gun here

ResisterRex · 06/12/2023 13:12

Froodwithatowel · 06/12/2023 12:20

If it's all non statutory non binding optional fluffy guidance that does help but doesn't do anything drastic like helping....

I'm increasingly thinking heavy paperwork needs to be required to socially transition a pupil, all signed, named staff, copies filed with the LA, a big process with a lot of practical accountability for the adults involved. Considering how much bumph has to be filled out to take six children to the park across the road for ten minutes in a lesson, or to get additional staffing support for a child with serious SEND why is this taken so much less seriously? The paperwork burden would slow this down, the accountability might make adults think, the process and requirement of evidencing how that decision was reached and signed to say the adults involved have considered the risks and possible negative impacts might make adults a bit less keen to rush into this. And the paperwork would then provide the necessary evidence for the kid to later sue the living daylights out of the people and authority involved if they come to regret the situation they were helped into.

Considering how some of these kids may come to be affected, the compensation involved may not just be a gesture, it may be badly needed income for someone made too ill and incapacitated before they reached adulthood to be able to earn a living.

Edited

Quite. Or the faff if you need nursery / school to administer antibiotics.

Yet transing gay kids? Have at it.

Truthlikeness · 06/12/2023 13:58

Tallisker · 06/12/2023 13:07

She has just said that puberty blockers are only given to adults and cannot be offered to children, she hasn't a clue. Why would you give puberty blockers to someone who has long completed puberty? Beggars belief.

I should probably watch more just in case I've jumped the gun here

that bit jumped out to me too, especially in the light of the recent report that puberty blockers have doubled in use for children since the Case Review.

Froodwithatowel · 06/12/2023 15:04

Tallisker · 06/12/2023 13:07

She has just said that puberty blockers are only given to adults and cannot be offered to children, she hasn't a clue. Why would you give puberty blockers to someone who has long completed puberty? Beggars belief.

I should probably watch more just in case I've jumped the gun here

You honestly wonder if the lines they parrot actually pass through their brain at all on their way from the paper in front of them to their mouths.

It's baffling that people with so little apparent capacity are in positions of power.

WickedSerious · 06/12/2023 15:38

Tallisker · 06/12/2023 13:07

She has just said that puberty blockers are only given to adults and cannot be offered to children, she hasn't a clue. Why would you give puberty blockers to someone who has long completed puberty? Beggars belief.

I should probably watch more just in case I've jumped the gun here

She doesn't seem all that well informed,the waffle is strong in this one.

LoobiJee · 06/12/2023 16:14

Tallisker · 06/12/2023 13:07

She has just said that puberty blockers are only given to adults and cannot be offered to children, she hasn't a clue. Why would you give puberty blockers to someone who has long completed puberty? Beggars belief.

I should probably watch more just in case I've jumped the gun here

So Gillian Keegan has misled Parliament?

Or was she confusing puberty blockers with cross-sex hormones?

Original poster

InThePottingShed · 06/12/2023 16:38

Good question
Is the minister not across her brief?

https://x.com/CforWomenUK/status/1732435853727711319?s=20

OP posts:

Froodwithatowel · 06/12/2023 17:11

LoobiJee · 06/12/2023 16:14

So Gillian Keegan has misled Parliament?

Or was she confusing puberty blockers with cross-sex hormones?

Show quote history

I suspect you're right and she has confused the two. But yes, the implications of that mistake are significant and she needs to correct it ASAP.

TheHereticalOne · 06/12/2023 17:22

Tallisker · 06/12/2023 13:07

She has just said that puberty blockers are only given to adults and cannot be offered to children, she hasn't a clue. Why would you give puberty blockers to someone who has long completed puberty? Beggars belief.

I should probably watch more just in case I've jumped the gun here

You didn't jump the gun. I was waiting for her to correct herself or for her to be corrected but there was nothing. She almost doubled down on it when she waffled about no medical intervention before adulthood, which can only be true of you don't count puberty blockers as a medical intervention (which would be wildly misleading in its own right).

I'm also surprised she wasn't picked up on her sidestep of the point (per the Cass review) that social transition (then puberty blockers) actively leads to the cascade of further medical intervention in adulthood. It was irritating that Nick Fletcher was cut off as I think he may have got round to that with his sparks and fires point.

rogdmum · 06/12/2023 17:48

It’s not much better if she got PBs confused with CSH. Cross sex hormones are given from the age of 16 so still before the child gets to the adult clinic.

She is hopeless. Thank goodness for Kemi.

unwashedanddazed · 06/12/2023 18:29

Fletcher said stating his views won't win him any votes. I think he's very mistaken about that.

unwashedanddazed · 06/12/2023 18:38

I don't know how a school could legally ban social transition if it's being done by the parents.

The child in my family who has been socially transitioned since the age of 3, under the Tavistock, who is now 12 and on puberty blockers is integrated into school life as the opposite sex. The school can't stop this. Nor can they refuse them a place as a pupil, I would assume.

The most the guidance can do is stop social transition being done by school staff without the parent's knowledge. Which I very much hope is in the guidance.

I completely disagree with the way this child has been raised, but it's not up to me.

ResisterRex · 06/12/2023 18:42

I don't know how a school could legally ban social transition if it's being done by the parents.

IIRC Sex Matters had a briefing on this where it stated that school enrolment may only legally be done with what is on a birth certificate. Therefore, the school could and should refuse to provide male children, access to the female facilities and sports and so on, and vice-versa. Because they are in possession of the facts, and they have duties to other children as well.

BonfireLady · 06/12/2023 19:23

Just listened to the whole available clip.

Yes, she is displaying worrying ignorance about puberty blockers. She also clearly has no appetite for looking at how the Equality Act may need amending to support children. I appreciate she's not responsible for either of these areas, and taking on Caroline Nokes would be tricky, but she's not acting in children's interests. I assume that there would need to be a law change to say that the PC of gender reassignment doesn't apply to under 18s.

She's staying in her narrow lane and completing a box ticking exercise only. Not good enough. She should be leading on how this is tackled and demanding that the Cass Review and Equality Act join up with the schools' guidance in a way that best protects children.

Froodwithatowel · 06/12/2023 21:23

ResisterRex · 06/12/2023 18:42

I don't know how a school could legally ban social transition if it's being done by the parents.

IIRC Sex Matters had a briefing on this where it stated that school enrolment may only legally be done with what is on a birth certificate. Therefore, the school could and should refuse to provide male children, access to the female facilities and sports and so on, and vice-versa. Because they are in possession of the facts, and they have duties to other children as well.

They just don't bring it into the classroom.

Most schools have gender neutral uniform options: there is no need then for boys to wear skirts. No child should be using changing or toilet or sleeping spaces for the opposite sex at any time, additional spaces provided as needed for privacy and dignity. No changing the child's name from what they were registered as. No getting involved in discussions about gender, it doesn't enter school and isn't relevant at school, and unqualified teachers shouldn't be influencing or getting involved in this. The child at home can do what they and their family choose, but there are limits to what comes into school in terms of self expression, as is standard with hair, clothes, jewellry etc. Reduce the fuss and specialness and excitement of it all. And no dodgy clubs.

It should be a neutral space, neither encouraging nor discouraging, and this not only means no risk of influencing and encouraging a child based on adult agendas and feelings, but also guarding against locking a child into something that will be hard to row back from should their wishes and feelings change. Surely this is what really matters, that children going down this path do so without being pushed in any direction, and that their options are kept as open as possible for as long as possible to avoid disasters like Keira Bell's?

thedankness · 06/12/2023 23:23

The child in my family who has been socially transitioned since the age of 3, under the Tavistock, who is now 12 and on puberty blockers is integrated into school life as the opposite sex.

Excuse me what??!! You know a child who has been socially transitioned since the age of 3? That poor child, that is blatant state-aided child abuse.

unwashedanddazed · 07/12/2023 00:14

thedankness · 06/12/2023 23:23

The child in my family who has been socially transitioned since the age of 3, under the Tavistock, who is now 12 and on puberty blockers is integrated into school life as the opposite sex.

Excuse me what??!! You know a child who has been socially transitioned since the age of 3? That poor child, that is blatant state-aided child abuse.

When this first started I was completely neutral on this subject, although I had my theories on why the child felt this way. I was interested in how the family (very intelligent parents) might manage the situation. I immediately started to read far and wide, articles, peer reviewed studies, trans forums, everything I could find, for and against. I've continued to read for the past nine years. The more I know, the more horrified and despairing I become.

How this ideological bullshit has managed to infiltrate the whole of society is beyond my understanding.

determinedtomakethiswork · 07/12/2023 00:51

Apologies, bookmarking this for tomorrow.

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 07/12/2023 01:26

I don't know how a school could legally ban social transition if it's being done by the parents.

There's more than just the 'trans child' to consider. Social transition by definition means that other children have to take part.

One set of parents cannot force every other child in the school to go along with a lie they may be too young to understand.