Female to male transition.

[CurlewKate]

Is there any research-or even discussion about the rate and outcome of female to male transition? Any high profile cases? I know about Elliot Page of course. And Buck Angel. But any business people? Anyone in the army? Anyone on TV that I may not have spotted?

Well, it's not possible to "transition", because humans can't change sex.

As for high profile females identifying as males... I can't think of any off hanc

Well, there's Stephen Whittle.

And Matty 'off of' Emmerdale.

According to ONS 2021:

A total of 262,000 people (0.5%) answered “No”, indicating that their gender identity was different from their sex registered at birth. Within this group:

• 118,000 (0.24%) answered “No” but did not provide a write-in response
• 48,000 (0.10%) identified as a trans man
• 48,000 (0.10%) identified as a trans woman
• 30,000 (0.06%) identified as non-binary
• 18,000 (0.04%) wrote in a different gender identity

The remaining 2.9 million (6.0%) did not answer the question on gender identity.

What sort of research are you looking for?

I don't know about business leaders, but high profile trans men that I've come across recently:

Elliot Page
Gottmik
Schuyler Bailar
Brian Michael Smith
Chaz Bono

Freddie McConnell, famous for having babies and trying to get the word mother removed from UK law.

Yes but the ONS data is shown to be wrong because many people did not understand the question

Scott Newgent, who has been very open about all the associated difficulties.

I think there's a military (or ex) couple - Jake Graaf and partner. I'm not sure who is female/male there though.

There's a couple of influencers:

Jamie Raines (YouTuber)
Noah Finnce (Singer)

And loads of copycat TikTok accounts that imitate them.

Fox Fisher (trans activist)

Leo Sheng (actor from the L word)

Chase Strangio of the ACLU?

Lee Burkhill. Celebrity gardener. Often on tv.

I know of a trans man who is very well known (internationally known, in fact) in his/her field and on his/her webpage is open about transitioning. (Offspring of an acquaintance, that's how I know).

She was never a "dainty" girl, and actually looks very convincing as a man.

But I'm not going to name him/her as however well known, it is nonetheless quite a serious, niche field.

But yes, there are people around in the public eye. Maybe we just don't always see them unless they choose to shout about it.

Here's one (Ben/Barbara Barres) who found being seen as a man made a scientific life easier:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Barres

It's pretty revealing of sexism in that area of work.

Jake and Hannah Graf. Jake is a transman and Hannah is a transwoman. They have two children together as a result of surrogacy arrangements. https://www.jakeandhannahgraf.com/about

How "High profile" do you need? Here are two well known female regretter/detransitioners - Sinead Watson (Sandyford clinic in Glasgow) has a significant online presence; and there;s Keira Bell (Tavistock judicial review)

Yes, a jawdropping case. Freddie is a film-maker and started making a documentary about the process of transitioning. It is thus all on film that within a few days Freddie first got a Gender Recognition Certificate, which involves signing a declaration that the person will live as their acquired sex for the rest of their life, and then had a first appointment at a fertility clinic to arrange for treatment to enable Freddie to become pregnant and give birth to a child. As umpteen people have pointed out, there is surely nothing more female in the entire world than becoming pregnant and giving birth, so how does that match up with a legally binding promise a few days before to live as a man for the rest of Freddie's life?

And then, the audacity to say 'I have given birth but I am a father, not a mother, and the birth certificate should reflect my reality' - when the birth certificate is a legal document recording the circumstances around the baby's birth! Fortunately the courts saw sense on that one and Freddie's case failed.

The other idiocy I remember associated with Freddie was Freddie's claim that nobody told Freddie that having a double mastectomy would mean that Freddie would be unable to breastfeed a baby.

Freddie comes from a very affluent family and no doubt had a very good education, but perhaps Biology was a weak spot.

I don't know of anyone who has done any full-scale long-term studies of women and transition. You'd have to dig around among studies looking at different issues.

Two researchers to look into are Lisa Littman and Stella O'Malley. Lisa Littman focus on teenage girls and ROGD
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-023-02716-1
And she and Stella O'Malley have done a recent paper on detransition which has mostly female participants.

A German Olympic pole vaulter, Yvonne Buschbaum, went ftm after the end of her career.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BalianBuschbaum

Look up Ewan Forbes.

There's none that I could name but every show on Netflix now seems to have the full contingent of mtf, ftm, nb, lgb qi+++++ it's like playing a game of identity bingo!

There was a book about Ewan Forbes recently which seemed to have been very inadequately edited, as the author (a transwoman) appeared to be determined to make the facts fit a predetermined theory rather than assemble the facts and try to make sense of them. I haven't read the book, but I read several reviews and other discussions and the tentative conclusion I came to was that nobody really knows now what happened in that case, nor is anybody ever likely to. Forbes could have been clearly female at birth and later 'lived as a man', but there seemed to be some evidence that Forbes had a disorder of sexual development and the medical advice given to the parents was to bring Forbes up as a girl. Later the parents travelled to Europe to try to get further medical treatment for their child. The end result was that Forbes did indeed live as a man, and short of exhuming the body and doing a DNA test I don't think any of us will ever know whether Forbes was biologically male or female.

there are any broad trends in the demographics and socioeconomic backgrounds of women who wish they were men.

One of the broad trends is youth. There is not a huge uptick in older women. But young girls have massively overtaken boys at e.g. the Tavistock.

Not sure went wrong with my previous post. Maybe I used banned terminology. I don't think there was anything rude or offensive in it.

There was only one post, although two are showing up as having been deleted. All I did was 1) point out that the evidence (apart from the aforementioned book which has been torn apart for its legal and factual inaccuracies) points to Ewan Forbes having a disorder of sexual development, rather than being trans.

And 2) observe that many of the trans men mentioned previously are prominent because they are involved in campaigning for 'trans rights' or for greater caution, rather than being well-known for other reasons. Could sexism be a factor? The poor quality of the data from the 2021 census is unfortunate since if it were reliable it may be possible to draw some preliminary conclusions about any trends or differences in the demographics and socioeconomic backgrounds of women who wish to be seen as men and men who wish to be seen as women. If the proportion of those who identify as trans men and those who identify as trans women is fairly equal, as the census suggests, you'd expect there to be around the same number of trans identified people of both sexes to be in the public eye, unless there are other factors at play. I think it's worth researching further and hope that someone is already doing that.