Use of puberty blockers has doubled since NHS "clampdown"

[FannyCann]

archive.ph/2023.11.26-221155/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/26/use-of-puberty-blockers-doubled-since-nhs-clampdown/

Hopefully that is the archive link to article in the Telegraph.

"The number of children being put on puberty blockers has doubled since the NHS pledged to clamp down on the treatment, The Telegraph can disclose.
At least 100 children – some as young as 12 – have been put on the drugs to prevent pubertyy_ since July 2022, when health officials said the practice would be stopped outside of clinical trials after a damning review of children’s gender services."

It goes on to say:

"But in the 12 months to July 2023, the number of children beginning puberty blockers on the NHS rose to 83, which is double the average of the previous two years.
Freedom of Information (FoI) requests to Leeds General Infirmary and University College London Hospital, which receive referrals from the Tavistock’s Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS), revealed at least a further 17 children started blockers between July and October this year, bringing the total to at least 100 since last summer.
This does not include patients given blockers privately or by a GP, while FoI exemption rules relating to small numbers potentially identifying individuals mean this is the most conservative estimate.
The Tavistock has referred dozens more for assessments by hormone specialists."

And by 'treatment on demand' you mean treatment after at least twenty-one months of waiting, right?

Because that is the current waiting time for Indigo. And of course most GICs have waiting times much longer than that.

These people apparently don't have a medical condition, so I'm surprised that the wait is only 21 months for treatment that they don't need because they're not ill. You often have to wait a lot longer than that if you have a real medical condition which actually needs treatment.

Waiting lists in the area for Autism and ADHD assessment are around 3 years, and that's if your referral is accepted. It sucks but this is not any different or more tragic than any other currently very slow medical pathway, not to mention that there are international ethical doubts about this particular pathway.

Average waiting time for an autism diagnosis is sixteen months.

Indigo - at 21 months - is one of the better performing services for trans people. The average is considerably higher.

Neither are unacceptable but waiting times are longer for trans people. Which is precisely why it is utter nonsense to claim trans people can get ‘treatment on demand’.

And by 'treatment on demand' you mean treatment after at least twenty-one months of waiting, right?

Has the publicity about endometriosis | adenomyosis and the odyssey for a diagnosis passed you by? The wait time for referral to an immunologist for a timely diagnosis of auto-immune diseases? Any number of conditions have lengthy diagnostic journeys followed by hellacious waiting times for interventions and therapies.

And, yes, the ability to guide your preferred treatment | management pathway is denied to hypothyroid patients who can very rarely obtain a T3 prescription. The diagnosis and management of B12 deficiency is so poor that a group of clinicians arranges the import of B12 ampoules so that NHS patients can apply for these.

There have been recent MN threads about patients with a brain aneurysm having their surgery cancelled and who are now in a waiting list race for surgery to correct an imminently life-threatening condition.

There is nothing distinctive about a 21 month waiting list.

Average waiting time for an autism diagnosis is sixteen months.

Three years here. UK.

Why do trans people need treatment when they don't have a medical condition?

Maybe in your part of the UK - but overall average rate across UK is sixteen months.

The actual averages don't bear out your point.

What is distinctive about this twenty one month wait is that it is about the best possible waiting time anyone on a publicly funded pathway can hope for.

By contrast, you can look at average waiting times for NHS services across all NHS trusts and areas of medicine. I've yet to find one with an average wait of more than about 26 weeks. Now, of course some people wait longer (just as some people wait 10 years for a first gender appointment). The reason we use averages is it gives us a decent basis of comparison.

Waiting times across the NHS are crap. But waiting times for gender services are significantly longer still.

Which brings us back to the point - the poster who claimed that trans people are accessing 'treatment on demand' was flat out lying.

I waited 9 months to see a gynaecologist then another 25 months for surgery and I had an actually medical condition.

I also know a lot of children who have had their referrals to CAMHS get refused. Sometimes repeatedly.

That's awful. Would you say you got 'treatment on demand'?

Which brings us back to the point - the poster who claimed that trans people are accessing 'treatment on demand' was flat out lying

The hyperbole of your accusation feels par for the course.

You might consider that your perceptions are shaped by your beliefs. I do consider cross-sex hormone treatments that are self-initiated with the intention that they should continued by the NHS to be treatment on demand and very much at odds with the experience of, for example, hypothyroid patients who import their T3.

As for the remainder, I can only think that you choose not to look at waiting times for other conditions.

@PlanetJanette
Waiting times across the NHS are crap. But waiting times for gender services are significantly longer still.

Most people on NHS waiting lists are there because they have a medical condition. Gender "treatment" is medical treatment for people who don't have a medical condition. Why do you think the NHS should provide gender "treatment" for these people who don't have a medical condition?

On the contrary, I've looked at a random section of NHS trusts and a range of different areas of medicine and didn't find any with an average wait time anywhere close to the waiting time for gender treatment.

Feel free to point me to the trust/discipline with comparable waiting times.

Also, trying the logical gymnastics to explain how waiting for years from referral to even a first appointment is 'treatment on demand' is nonsense. Do you think the PP who described waiting 9 months for treatment also got 'treatment on demand'?

I'm not sure what this has to do with the claim I was addressing which is that trans people get treatment on demand.

That is a simple lie, isn't it? It's not 'treatment on demand' if you have to wait years to even be seen for the first time, let alone treated.

My point was that they don't need treatment because they don't have a medical condition, so the NHS shouldn't be treating them at all.

In a way they are getting treatment on demand, because their treatment is completely unnecessary and they only get it because they demand it, not because they have a medical need for the treatment.

I've looked at a random section of NHS trusts and a range of different areas of medicine and didn't find any with an average wait time anywhere close to the waiting time for gender treatment.

How many of those areas of medicine were for the treatment of people who didn't have a medical need? That's the difference. Either you admit that people who believe they were born in the wrong body have a mental health condition that they need treatment for, or you can continue to insist that they are not mentally unwell. If it's the latter, they have no need for treatment because they don't have a medical need.

Of course not. The gynaecologist investigated my condition, diagnosed and determined the best course of treatment based on all the evidence available for conditions such as mine. We discussed the risks of the surgery and the less effective but less intrusive alternative. I didn’t presume the best course of action and demand she provide it after whatever waiting period. She didn’t immediately affirm a self diagnosis either and the clinic wasn’t full of flags and literature from people who had demanded the surgery and were now enjoying ‘gynae joy’.

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-10-16/itv-news-review-uncovers-worst-data-ever-for-adhd-referral-wait-times

"Our findings are stark and reflect a clear postcode lottery. The average wait time for a referral is three years in the UK.

The longest waits for children are in Belfast - where it can be up to five years.

Adults in Herefordshire and Worcestershire wait more than ten years to get any answers."

...

"In York, they introduced a crisis pilot in March to try to tackle the backlog, which now means you cannot be referred unless you meet urgent criteria."

Not that you can get medication at the moment even if diagnosed. There is a huge shortage of ADHD meds.

Kathleen Stock has written about this in the Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/01/new-nhs-trans-scandal-unfolding-across-country/

It doesn't really add anything new but it's good to see it getting more exposure. Archived in the usual place.

Such a disingenuous argument. The “treatment on demand” refers to the fact that once seen, it is patient led medicine with a menu of options for patient choice instead of thorough assessment as in, for example, someone who has waited a similar length of time for an autism diagnosis. It’s the consumerisation of medicine not the waiting time length that is the issue.

But we all know that…

By the logic of a previous poster, these timescales amount to ‘treatment on demand’.

Yes it is, if you are demanding specific medications of surgeries based on nothing more than your demand for it then it is treatment on demand. That is not healthcare. The NHS exists to provide healthcare.