Sandi Toksvig "doesn't get it", poor love....

[HootyMcBooby]

Sandi Toksvig slams anti-trans bigots ‘claiming to be radical feminists’ (msn.com)

"I could weep. I don’t get it. It’s beyond me"

Yeah Sandi, I don't get it either.
How is it possible that men can say they are women and have unfettered access to females in their safe spaces?
How is it possible that we are medicating children against puberty?
How it is possible that a woman can be raped on a female hospital ward by a man claiming to be a woman and then gaslighted to be told a man was not on the ward?
How is it possible that men are claiming titles, sponsorships and medals in women's sports?
How is it possible women and females are being literally erased from so many spheres of life, including health/medicine and marketing campaigns? How come the same isn't happening to males?

As a lesbian do you like "lady penis"?
Or do you actually know that men remain men whatever surgeries they may have had, and are just on the "be kind" train?

Have you even THOUGHT about the issues this ideology ushers in?

Actually you don't need to answer that.
It's obvious.

Why stop there? Why not chastise us for knowing the history of 1960s feminism schisms in Greece, or Spain? What about Iceland?

Oh, god, Pots. Is there no end to the paucity of my knowledge!

The United Nations has 193 member countries. That's a lot of women's rights history we need to learn about.

Maybe if everyone on FWR takes one country each?

I assumed other posters would be more knowledgeable and they, not you, might be willing to share that knowledge

I genuinely don't get this mindset -
I mean, in one breath you're saying "we're not a hive mind, and I'm trying to educate myself..."

Then in the next "we're not a hive mind but I only want to hear from those with the same views as myself, not you!'
How on earth is that educating yourself if you only take in voices from your own echo chamber and those that fit your view?
To me educating myself means reading from both "sides"

Since you're so knowledgeable about this @ScremeEggs, perhaps you could share your wisdom.

Sandi Toksvig claims that as a lesbian she was personally excluded from the feminist movement in the 70s, but she didn't come out until 1994. What exactly happened to her in the 70s?

I’m really enjoying the idea that we should act like stuff that happened in the 60 and 70s (in the USA) can or should be straightfowardly compared to 2023. Because not much has changed in the last 60 years. Totally relevant to bring it up to explain why women are wrong in this century.

Because that poster rather than sharing knowledge just wants to be unpleasant. Anyone else, not you, just people who aren't going to be arsey.

Since you're so knowledgeable about this @ScremeEggs, perhaps you could share your wisdom
Nowhere have I said I'm knowledgeable, just think it's daft only wanting to hear from posters who fit your own view.
Not exactly educating yourself, that

I don't have a view except that I want to minimise any interaction with unpleasant posters. After I've educated myself, perhaps then I'll have a view. Something Ms Toksvig should think about.

Well, Julie Bindel, a feminist and lesbian who came out in 1977, and threw herself wholeheartedly into feminist campaigning within the UK in 1979, does not seem to appreciate Sandi Toksvig's characterisation of the feminist movement at large.

I was not around in the 1960s or the 1970s, so I cannot form a view from personal experience, meaning I can only listen to those who were. Given that, Julie Bindel seems to be a more reliable source on UK feminism. In saying this, I must admit to some bias: my mother was an avid Spare Rib reader and Julie Bindel was literally a household name throughout my childhood.

I think that in itself could be an indicator of how the attitude towards lesbians differed between US feminism and UK feminism, because my mother was never shy about the prejudices she did hold. Yet I never heard her say a word that was negative about lesbians.

The elitism is stark. Lesson to be learnt. No person can post on FWR unless they are a true feminist as described by the ‘true feminist panel’. That worked so well in past decades didn’t it?

@PlanetJanette I'm not sure why you chose the CofE as a deflection but we are where we are.

The CofE has a religious definition of marriage. This has changed slowly over time but the latest is

'Marriage is a gift of God in creation
through which husband and wife may know the grace of God.'

It sits outside any secular or state definition. It is of itself. Are you prepared to tell us that we cannot hold our belief?

It's okay. Stand down, I've educated myself. I googled. It's not the same at all.

Mind you, posters with histories unobscured (or maybe they think their posting style is not consistent) by name changes scolding other posters on feminism is just hilarious. It really is ludicrous. But hey, I am sure they feel virtuous.

Sandi Toksvig claims that as a lesbian she was personally excluded from the feminist movement in the 70s, but she didn't come out until 1994. What exactly happened to her in the 70s?*

Interesting. Perhaps she's referring to the attempt to pass the ERA in the US when women from different political and women's rights groups banned together to agree on the ERA and also abortion. We had mild conservatives, moderates and radical feminists and socialists who joined to push these two key policy changes into US federal law (didn't work). To appeal to broader base and to fight the opposition mainly led by Beverly LaHaye and Phyllis Schlafly (I have no love lost for those women who gleefully threw women's rights under the bus) this coalition for the ERA and abortion rights tamped down other feminists issues like rights for lesbians and ignored Black women's specific issues.

How US woman's activism in the 1960s and 70s had a direct bearing on Danish women's politics and then later UK political issues, I'm not clear.

Where have I said that? I've asked you to explain.

I believe Stephen Fry was also late to the table in coming out, but now has no problem presenting himself as if he were at the forefront of the gay rights movement.

I realise this is a thread about Sandi, so I apologise for bringing a man into the conversation, but I think the parallels that can be drawn between these two characters individuals is interesting.

I have sought clarification on Toksvig's timeline, using both her book and wikipedia as a source.

So, Sandi was born in Denmark in 1958, but her childhood was mostly in the US. Then she went to an English boarding school, followed by a degree at Cambridge. So I suppose that whatever happened to her in the 70s happened to her in the UK.

I readily admit my knowledge of Danish 1960s feminist history is worse than scant.

Mind you the Danish women I've known have been fucking fierce.

Also Mishy, that sign in She is down to Gary Henshaw - he pushes trans ideology down everyone's throat in his venues, and it doesn't matter what is clientele think about it, but they just want to have a good time so take no notice, but I can tell you something, many don't like it but what are they going to do? Stop going? Of course not. His insistence on drag nights pisses people off too. It won't be long before She is a queer venue rather than a Lesbian venue. I think it's actually marketed as a queer venue if I'm not mistaken, these days.

All the lesbian-only groups I know of nowadays have had to go underground to stop themselves being invaded or their venues cancelling.

There are many on twitter saying GC people want to "let women speak" but want to shut down Sandi.

We will see if there are any violent protests against her from the GC side.

I certainly don't want to shut down Sandi.

I'm predicting that she'll be self censoring due to TRAs in no time.

It is always the lack of symmetry that causes dissonance in my head porcelina. The hyperbole and over exaggeration to claim victim hood while actively dismissing some very serious activities from the side that declares they are the tolerant and righteous side.

Of course, Sandi will not be ‘cancelled’ by any feminists. Do women protest in front of the WEP meetings and conferences now? No. There is no symmetry in this particular’both sides’ argument.

From what I can see Sandi hasn't said anything much beyond displaying her ignorance. Much like that other woman, Naomi....something?😁 If that's being silenced then all those bastards who've stopped me opining on rocket surgery, french polishing, tatting, setting up a reef tank....I will have my reckoning!