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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Museum reclassifies Roman emperor as trans woman

57 replies

HelenaRavenclaw · 21/11/2023 18:39

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-67484645

How long till Boudica is classified as a trans man? (Surely a "cis" woman would never lead a rebellion?)

Elagabalus

Museum reclassifies Roman emperor as trans woman

It comes after classical texts quote the emperor saying "call me not Lord, for I am a Lady".

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-67484645

OP posts:
Highlyflavouredgravy · 21/11/2023 18:41

What a load of shit

Toseland · 21/11/2023 18:46

They're bloody desperate - I'm so sick of this idiotic rubbish

CluelessPadme · 21/11/2023 18:47

FFS!

And I say that as both a Classicist and a museum manager

MinnieMountain · 21/11/2023 18:50

Funnily enough Mary Beard discusses him in her latest book. What the hell is the museum thinking?

GoodOldEmmaNess · 21/11/2023 19:09

I understand that quite a few Roman emperors identified as gods, despite being amab (assigned mortal at birth). We should at least capitalise their pronouns on the museum labels.

Challengemonica · 21/11/2023 19:28

Aww, isn't that kind 😊 But I'm wondering how she became an Emperor if she was a woman. Oh, right. So she took all the male privileges she could then, with unquestionable power under her belt, indulged in a kink by calling herself a she. Stunning and brave indeed. Waiting with baited breath to hear about all the Emperor's who were in fact trans men - what a day for inclusivity 🙌

FreebieWallopFridge · 21/11/2023 19:33

Madness

HelenaRavenclaw · 21/11/2023 19:38

MinnieMountain · 21/11/2023 18:50

Funnily enough Mary Beard discusses him in her latest book. What the hell is the museum thinking?

Mary Beard is on our side (pro-TERFs), right? Someone should ask her to write a response to the museum!

OP posts:
AllProperTeaIsTheft · 21/11/2023 19:40

I understand that quite a few Roman emperors identified as gods, despite being amab (assigned mortal at birth). We should at least capitalise their pronouns on the museum labels.

Grin
GarlicMaybeNot · 21/11/2023 19:42

It's perfectly appropriate for our current cultural authorities (I note the museum consulted Stonewall) to bring our thinking in line with the most overtly patriarchal, penis-worshipping force to have ruled the Western world. Ancient Rome considered adolescent boys fair sexual game but, on reaching full personhood - only available to men - they had to stop 'receiving' penis, or be deemed a woman and therefore not a real person.

As Dr Malik says in the article, calling an Emperor a 'bottom' was a massive insult intended to demean & undermine his status. To the Romans, a 'bottom' was as lowly as a woman; definitely unworthy of his laurels. This only supports the theory that transphobia was rife in the Roman Empire, too. Whether Elagabalus was a gay man or not, it's our responsibility as the New Improved Patriarchy to honour this aspect of his legacy and call him, as the Romans did, a woman.

The poor sod's probably rolling his eyes in the Fields of Elysium, muttering (in Latin) that he should've known those dumb Britons would eventually drag this one out of the mud.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 21/11/2023 19:42

Whoever decided that needs to learn some y7 history, which at my dcs’ school involved learning about how you have to be critical of your sources. You would think that would be common sense even for people who have not been to a single history lesson but apparently not.
I love the idea that everything ever written about Roman emperors must be true.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 21/11/2023 19:42

A museum spokesperson said it was "only polite and respectful to be sensitive to identifying pronouns for people in the past"

Newsflash - they're dead, they don't GAF.

TheMarzipanDildo · 21/11/2023 20:05

I mean he was a bit of a nutter if Horrible Histories is anything to go by, so perhaps an appropriate role model for some of the TRAs.

TheMarzipanDildo · 21/11/2023 20:09

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 21/11/2023 19:42

A museum spokesperson said it was "only polite and respectful to be sensitive to identifying pronouns for people in the past"

Newsflash - they're dead, they don't GAF.

Enjoying the image Elagabalus sat up there in heaven unlikely getting pissy at people for misgendering her.

It is a point that atheists shouldn’t really care what dead people think…

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 21/11/2023 20:10

TheMarzipanDildo · 21/11/2023 20:05

I mean he was a bit of a nutter if Horrible Histories is anything to go by, so perhaps an appropriate role model for some of the TRAs.

Well yes, I guess if we believe he identified as a woman we also have to believe he murdered his dinner guests by suffocating them with rose petals. Typical TRA elevation of the feelings of violent criminals.

DdraigGoch · 21/11/2023 20:18

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 21/11/2023 19:42

A museum spokesperson said it was "only polite and respectful to be sensitive to identifying pronouns for people in the past"

Newsflash - they're dead, they don't GAF.

Pretty sure that they wouldn't have used "he/him" or "she/her" anyway. Given that modern English hadn't been invented and that they probably didn't speak old English either.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 21/11/2023 20:22

DdraigGoch · 21/11/2023 20:18

Pretty sure that they wouldn't have used "he/him" or "she/her" anyway. Given that modern English hadn't been invented and that they probably didn't speak old English either.

It's a long time since my O Level Latin and I couldn't recall the personal pronouns so had to look them up

https://booksnbackpacks.com/latin-personal-pronouns/

Scrabblingaround · 21/11/2023 20:23

They at least found a very sensible Dr to politely rubbish the whole thing.

Agrona · 21/11/2023 20:25

Herodotus, who wrote one of the first history books is often called: The Father of Lies.

Recent research indicates Exodus from The Bible may not be accurate due to archaeological evidence.

Suetonis’s The Twelve Caesars is full of scandals, salacious stores and probably many untruths.

Once again, so called historians are being flexible with facts.

Caffeineislife · 21/11/2023 20:41

I don't think any historians were actually consulted about this. The executive councilor will not be a historian and will have some agenda about representing LQBTQ+ in heritage, Stonewall are as far from history as one could possibly get. The one person with any idea about Roman literature (the professor) politely poo poos the whole idea.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 21/11/2023 20:45

Caffeineislife · 21/11/2023 20:41

I don't think any historians were actually consulted about this. The executive councilor will not be a historian and will have some agenda about representing LQBTQ+ in heritage, Stonewall are as far from history as one could possibly get. The one person with any idea about Roman literature (the professor) politely poo poos the whole idea.

There was a time when a museum whose subject was history would have employed someone with a qualification in the subject.

Agrona · 21/11/2023 20:49

I meant stories not stores. Sorry.

crumpet · 21/11/2023 21:21

They are idiots

LemonadeSunshine · 21/11/2023 21:33

It's desperate and actually hysterically funny, honouring someone dead for almost 2k years with an interpretation by someone else, completely nuts!

ArthurbellaScott · 21/11/2023 21:44

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 21/11/2023 20:22

It's a long time since my O Level Latin and I couldn't recall the personal pronouns so had to look them up

https://booksnbackpacks.com/latin-personal-pronouns/

OMG don't tell them.

'Each personal pronoun has forms for all five cases. When you learn the personal pronouns, you have to memorize all these case forms.
Cases are used exactly the same way for pronouns as they are for nouns. The nominative expresses the subject, the accusative is for the direct object, etc. The exception is the genitive, which works a little differently with first and second person pronouns. I will discuss this more below.'

Email sigs are bad enough as they are. Brace yourselves for a blizzard of declensions.