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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Scottish Government has a Plan!

65 replies

Igneococcus · 17/11/2023 07:17

It really does, it says so. The plan has 50 points and is aimed at addressing the needs of the country's non-binary population. Maybe if all of us here in the Highlands&Islands declare ourselves NB they will build us some fecking ferries.
I will do a sharetoken when I'm on a different device in a bit.

Trans people promised better access to fertility treatments (thetimes.co.uk)

Trans people promised better access to fertility treatments

Scottish government draws up 50-point plan to address needs of non-binary population

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-people-promised-better-access-to-fertility-treatments-bspvb8x6c

OP posts:
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SaffronSpice · 17/11/2023 21:03

HiddenLegoOuch · 17/11/2023 09:17

If everyone declared themselves NB, maybe they’d fund the ferries?

The are throwing money at a couple of ferries like it’s going out of fashion. So maybe Sannox and ‘hull’ have been declared NB.

SaffronSpice · 17/11/2023 21:09

OldCrone · 17/11/2023 17:56

Surely of something only works with participation of unconsenting strangers then its all obviously extremely flawed. Nothing else requires this level of involvement with anyone.

It's the concept of "passing", which seems to be such a major part of being trans. The whole ideology is based on how other people see you. It's about pretending to be something you are not and convincing other people that you are what you are pretending to be. It's fundamentally dishonest.

That might explain the appeal to the SNP

GoatsareGOAT · 17/11/2023 22:05

SaffronSpice · 17/11/2023 21:09

That might explain the appeal to the SNP

🎯🎯🎯

to be fair we have a health secretary who doesn't have the brains to use WiFi to watch the football so we can't go expecting tricky stuff now can we🙄

JanesLittleGirl · 17/11/2023 22:22

TBF the SNP has lots of plans. A plan for independence; a plan to deliver effective healthcare for Scotland; a plan to reduce the academic attainment gap; a plan to reduce drug deaths.

How are these working out?

UnremarkableBeasts · 18/11/2023 07:34

Yes. Strategies and plans are the main output of the Scottish government. They rarely deliver anything. But they’ll produce many documents outlining what they want to deliver.

RealFeminist · 18/11/2023 08:19

GoatsareGOAT · 18/11/2023 00:35

Just read this from Susan Dalgety & thought of you JanesLittleGirl
"A recent survey by think tank Our Scottish Future revealed that the Scottish Government published a strategy every three or four days. And there were 669 consultations last year"

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/scottish-government-is-fostering-a-cult-of-gender-identity-ideology-that-is-destroying-lives-susan-dalgety-4413621#

I checked the consultation page yesterday. Last one was on regulation of water cremation. This does not seem a subject Keith down the pub is likely to have a useful opinion on.

FannyCann · 18/11/2023 08:39

Eh? Water cremation?
Cremation + 🔥✅
Cremation + 💧💦🚹

I'm not sure Google is my friend here.

Igneococcus · 18/11/2023 09:10

I can't quite see why dissolving a body in NaOH is nicer or more environmentally friendly than the other options.

OP posts:
RealFeminist · 18/11/2023 09:33

Agree, OP.

UnremarkableBeasts · 18/11/2023 12:10

That consultation is a pretty good example of ornamental government consultation.

There is a lot of text on that link but it’s extremely difficult to get any real sense of what the consultation is actually about.

Why aren’t consultations subject to the same content design standards as other public facing services on scot.gov.uk?

SaffronSpice · 18/11/2023 12:13

Because the purpose of consultations is to tick a box whilst obscuring their true intent.

UnremarkableBeasts · 18/11/2023 12:13

I mean, you’d think the first thing to make clear in a consultation is what alkaline hydrolysis actually is. And what choosing that as an alternative to cremation or burial would entail or mean.

No. Instead there’s an enormously long ministerial foreword that makes absolutely nothing clear whatsoever.

well done SNP.

UnremarkableBeasts · 18/11/2023 12:14

SaffronSpice · 18/11/2023 12:13

Because the purpose of consultations is to tick a box whilst obscuring their true intent.

I think the aim is to make sure no one participates. Except the 5 organisations they want to.

Its policy-based evidence generation.

Boredanddejected · 18/11/2023 13:35

Hang on! If being trans/non binary isn’t a mental health condition, why do trans/non binary people need mental health services more than people who actually have mental health conditions?

UnremarkableBeasts · 19/11/2023 19:21

Sigh.

Actually Maggie, from here it looks very much like you and your cronies stoking up a culture war to make yourselves feel virtuous and then getting angry at any opponents who point out that it’s not worth parliament spending time on this stuff.

It is ridiculous that the Scottish parliament is writing strategies that pretend that people who don’t embrace gender stereotypes as universal laws of nature are somehow unusual, or that they are discriminated against in any meaningful way.

There are loads of groups whose daily lives are marked by discrimination in Scotland. But the greens don’t really care about boring stuff like age discrimination (well, so long as it applies to old people) or disability discrimination. No. Let’s be outraged about how non-binary identities simply aren’t being taken seriously enough.

RealFeminist · 19/11/2023 19:23

'“This is an utterly insensitive and inappropriate thing for an elected representative to say,” she said. “It lays bare the Tories’ complete failure to grasp the fact that binary gender identities are restrictive and fail to capture the full, beautiful diversity of humanity.
“It is also a gross insult to all who have faced prejudice, discrimination, hate or worse because they do not conform to the small, narrow-minded view of gender that have become too prevalent in our politics.'

YOU TELL EM MAGGIE

Winnading · 19/11/2023 21:39

Gods sake, wish I'd never looked and after all this process, you could have been bloody cremated quicker, with less carbon emissions.

What is alkaline hydrolysis?8. Alkaline hydrolysis is a method of disposal of human remains using hot water with the addition of potassium hydroxide, or sodium hydroxide, or a mix of both. The body is wrapped in a silk or woollen shroud, or other biodegradable material, before being placed into a pressurised chamber and heated to up to 150 °C. The Cremation Association of North America report that the body rapidly reduces to bones, any medical implants and sterile DNA-free liquid. The report by The Health Council of the Netherlands sets out the alkaline hydrolysis process:
“Alkaline hydrolysis is a chemical process in which the body of a deceased individual is first placed in a steel pressure vessel. Once the vessel has been closed, water and potassium hydroxide are added. The vessel is then pressurised and the water is heated. The maximum temperature varies from about 100 to 150 degrees Celsius, depending on the type of system being used, and the pressure. The combined action of heat, water, and potassium hydroxide, causes the body’s organic substances to dissolve in the liquid. This fully automated process takes two to ten hours, depending on the temperature and on the weight of the body to be processed. In addition to heating the liquid, a complete cycle involves various cooling and rinsing steps.
There are three types of residual material:

  • The bones. These are dried and ground into a white powder, which consists largely of calcium. As with cremation ashes, this powder can be given to the next of kin.
  • Any prostheses, fillings, and medical devices. These can be collected and disposed of.
  • The liquid used during hydrolysis. This effluent, which has a volume of approximately 1,500 litres, consists of water, potassium hydroxide, and the dissolved organic substances (sugars, amino acids, salts, and fatty acids). The effluent has a high pH, and contains no DNA or RNA. The pH is reduced to less than 10 by adding sulphuric acid.” (page 18)
  1. After the process is complete and the bones and any implants removed, the remaining liquid is cooled before being moved to a treatment tank. The liquid produced as a result of alkaline hydrolysis is slightly alkaline (around 9 – 10.5 on the pH scale). It includes compounds such as sugars, amino acids and fatty acids, nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium hydroxide. It contains no genetic material (RNA or DNA). Addition of acid may be required to make the liquid less alkaline (reduce the pH) before disposal.
10. The bones left at the end are soft and porous and are ground into a powder, also referred to as “ash”. This secondary process is the same as is used during cremation, although the ash is a lighter colour. The “ashes” can then be returned directly to the family of the deceased, collected by the funeral director on behalf of the family, or otherwise disposed of in a way agreed with the alkaline hydrolysis provider. Medical implants, such as pacemakers or metal implants can be recovered and recycled, as happens with cremation. 11. Once the bones and any implants are removed, the remaining liquid (which is made up of a variety of organic and inorganic materials) would need to be disposed of by the operator. One option is for the liquid to be disposed of by being released to drain as happens following the embalming process (subject to consent from Scottish Water). Supporters of alkaline hydrolysis have suggested that the liquid can also be considered for alternative, sustainable disposal options including use in a green space or a garden of remembrance (subject to consents from relevant authorities). (Question 2) 12. The Netherlands report gives some alternative examples of how the remaining liquid might be dealt with. These are methods which may become available in Scotland, subject to the outcomes of the consultation and further development of the next steps. “there may be alternatives to discharging the effluent into the sewer system. For example, the effluent can be treated locally, immediately after completion of the alkaline hydrolysis process. When using a purification method that preserves nutrients (such as anaerobic purification), the locally purified effluent can be used to fertilise fields, commercial forests, or places of remembrance, for example. Depending on the wishes of the next of kin and the facilities available at the funeral company, some of the processed effluent could be given to the next of kin. Another option would be to use the effluent directly (i.e. without first treating it) as a fertiliser. A third processing method is to transport the effluent by road tanker to a sludge digester, where it would be used to produce biogas.” (page 18) 13. Any organisation proposing to offer alkaline hydrolysis will need to detail in their planning application to the local authority how they intend to dispose of the liquid and demonstrate that they have obtained the relevant consents from Scottish Water or SEPA.

Admissibility of new techniques of disposing of the dead

In accordance with Dutch law, a body of a deceased person can be buried, cremated or donated to science. New techniques are being developed, like alkaline hydrolysis and composting. At the request of the Ministry of the Interior and Kingdom Relations,...

https://www.healthcouncil.nl/documents/advisory-reports/2020/05/25/admissibility-of-new-techniques-of-disposing-of-the-dead

Winnading · 19/11/2023 21:41

I dont think this matter is urgent enough to have a gert big meeting about

Availability of alkaline hydrolysis in other countries65. According to the Cremation Association of North America, there are active practitioners of alkaline hydrolysis in 15 states of the United States of America, and 5 provinces of Canada (where the National Collaborating Centre for Environmental Health published a report on alkaline hydrolysis in April 2023), while another 8 US states have legalised the process.
66. The Dutch Government commissioned the Health Council of the Netherlands to assess the admissibility of new techniques of body disposal, including alkaline hydrolysis. They found that that alkaline hydrolysis compares favourably to burial and cremation with respect to sustainability and complies in principle with their three tests for assessing new techniques of disposing of the deceased: safety, dignity and sustainability.
67. The review included both qualitative and quantitative market research and environmental comparisons with flame cremation and burial. However, the Council also noted that the technical specifications of alkaline hydrolysis would have to be further examined before it could potentially be authorised for public use.
68. We understand that alkaline hydrolysis is also available in different areas in Australia, Mexico and South Africa.

UnremarkableBeasts · 19/11/2023 21:47

Gods sake, wish I'd never looked and after all this process, you could have been bloody cremated quicker, with less carbon emissions.

Haha.

and yes… it would help if they could just concisely summarise the key points so people could determine if it’s something they might have a view on.

But no. You had to check info from other governments to figure out what the fuck the Scottish government might even be proposing.

All these consultations. I assume the same standards of incomprehensibility applied to them all.

IcakethereforeIam · 19/11/2023 21:48

Thank you, you've just reminded me to check on the stock I'm making.

Winnading · 19/11/2023 21:51

UnremarkableBeasts · 19/11/2023 21:47

Gods sake, wish I'd never looked and after all this process, you could have been bloody cremated quicker, with less carbon emissions.

Haha.

and yes… it would help if they could just concisely summarise the key points so people could determine if it’s something they might have a view on.

But no. You had to check info from other governments to figure out what the fuck the Scottish government might even be proposing.

All these consultations. I assume the same standards of incomprehensibility applied to them all.

I'm tempted to look at some other consultations over Christmas while I'm off.
I may report back with the absolute batshit they've produce this year.

All that process to get partially rid of a dead body and I can only imagine maybe 5 people in Scotland even want to do this. How many MSPs, how much time, how many meetings. It defies belief.