Girl Guides and Trans Awareness Week

[ScoldsBridle]

Pinning their contradictory, conflicting opinions to their mast. Who on earth do they think they’re appealing to? ‘Girl-only’ surely can’t include boys?

That survey interviewed a selected (ie invited) couple of thousand individuals out of the entire guiding community. It is not reflective of the people at the the coal face at all.

Goodness, you're so woke you must have been up at the crack of dawn! Can you seriously not see the safeguarding issues here?

They shut down commenting on their Facebook page pretty quickly. Got rid of comments pointing out the safeguarding flaws. I've been in Guiding since I was 10, a leader for over 15 years, and it really feels to me like they are losing their way.

How is manipulating the survey and twisting the results to suit a narrative respecting their views ?

Ah, you think young girls must include people like this.

Got it.

Ah. Yes. This was a person in a regional leadership role advising leaders about safeguarding…. Such an aspirational leader.

And how wonderful it is that no parent should ever be told that at a camp, their daughter could be sharing a tent or a dormitory with a male. And the showers. How very inclusive that is for any girl who doesn’t want to share with male people or cannot for whatever reason. So very very inclusive !

@Helleofabore the truth is even darker than that. Over COVID they purposely removed, from their overnight permission form (REN) the section where the leader has to notify their District Commissioner whether boys/men - no matter their proclaimed identity - are attending and if they have separate accommodation & showering facilities. Screenshot of the section that’s been removed. They have done this knowing exactly what they are doing. This isn’t an oversight. It’s intentional.

Thanks. That is grim.

Apparently though some people feel it is worthy of celebrating. I find those who celebrate it have no real concept of safeguarding.

Well yes, it could be the end of GG, but this isn't a new thing, I think I first heard about this in 2017. There was pushback then by parent and leaders. How many more years do we think GG should be allowed to gaslight girls? I thought back in 2017 it should be barred from allowing boys and men of any gender identity in. Yet here we are at the end of 2023 and somehow GG is still limping on and still allowing boys and men of any gender in.
It's like they burned all the rules of safeguarding and said fuck it, we'll make up our own, more inclusive rules, what could possibly go wrong.

GG frequently survey members and parents and I got one quite recently that asked a lot of questions about the value of girl only spaces.
What they mean by that, we can only guess, but they know this is an issue for members and whilst they have been staunchly defending the 'single gender' line for some time maybe enough people have changed roles in GG for some wiggle room on at least talking about this.

I received the survey and was curious about the angle they seemed to be taking. There were a lot of mentions of single sex spaces and questions about their value to girls. I was VERY clear in my comments that I was answering those questions with spaces exclusively for natal females in mind.

Yes its fantastic that girls and young women, the type without cocks, are excluded from girl guides because of these perverts.

And before you say that's not the case this is why my eldest is not currently in girl guides.

I'm a statistician.
Sorry, I just don't think many young women and girls share your views.

Me? You've passedd an exam so that means you can state many yoing girls think that girls can have a penis?

Great. Then you know that the polls taken over the past few years have been consistent. That the majority of women over 18 polled don’t agree wholeheartedly that male people with penises should be able to be in female single sex spaces.

You, personally, seem to accept lower safeguarding for young women and girls, to be clear I am referring to female people**, to prioritise male people. And since you are a statistician, maybe you would also know where we can all find the robust studies that show that male people with a trans identity have a reduced risk of committing sex offences than the rest of the UK male population. Do you have that information?

If not, why are you supporting exposing female children at guides to increased risk?

And why are you then keen on limiting what those guide groups can do because of that increased safeguarding risk? Because I think many groups will now simply restrict their activities to those where the leaders can ensure as high a safeguarding level as they can but they might now drop camp, or away trips.

Then, since you are a statistician, maybe you can answer the elusive answer:

How many additional women and girls being harmed is acceptable to you, personally, before these safeguarding loopholes are removed and as robust safeguarding as can be done is re-established?

Is it 1 extra girl or woman harmed because male people are now given access to female only safe spaces and groups such as girl guides? Well, that number has already passed.

5? That has long passed too!

We had a poster bravely tell us a month or so ago that once a trend had been established that more than 100 girls and women are being harmed per year in the UK because male people now have access to female single sex safe spaces, we could then relook at policies and laws around including male people in these single sex spaces. Do you agree with that poster? Or will your answer be equal to n+1?

It will be great to have a statistician inform us on both where to find those studies and statistics about this groups of male people having lower risk of committing sex offences AND getting another answer about how many additional girls and women need to be harmed before safeguarding can be strengthened to exclude male people again.

** just for clarity my definition of girl and woman do not include any human born male regardless of their chosen ‘gender’.

I spy with my little eye …

Here's a question for you.

Why don't the women and girls who "support the inclusion" of biological males in their groups join the Scouts instead, which is a mixed sex organisation, and allow those women and girls who want and need a single sex organisation to have their needs met?

@MaryWelly what you’re describing is the very definition of grooming. We won’t let up with Girlguiding until not only is their policy changed, but everyone who believes males can change sex and are entitled to share girl-only spaces are expunged from the organisation.

And while you are here, I am sure as a statistician you might also have read the polls that show that many young women are quite conscious that being honest about their opinions to people they don't feel safe with is now a huge issue for them.

That these young women keep an opinion they feel is controversial to themselves in case they lose friends, family, social groups or opportunities.

Here you go:

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/YouGov-_Cancel_culture.pdf

A majority of Britons (57%) say they have, at least sometimes, found themselves stopping themselves from expressing their political or social views for fear of judgement or negative responses from others.

Women are also more likely to have held their tongue than men (62% vs 52%).

This also reflects an earlier poll done by Frank Luntz's in mid 2021 that found:

-29 per cent have stopped talking to someone over something political they said — while 22 per cent have had someone shun them over their views.
-And some 53 per cent of 18 to 29-year-olds have even cancelled friendships because of friend's views.

I am very happy to dig up that link to Luntz's findings as well, although it is the presentation version as I believe he did it for his client and they no longer have the data publicly available.

But if you can confidently assert "Sorry, I just don't think many young women and girls share your views." as a statistician, can you please point to an independently run study that supports your claim. Particularly in light that it is those young women and girls who are even more aware that they should be not saying what they really think.

Or are you just repeating trope that you read off the interest that has little foundation in reality thinking that it is 'tolerant', 'compassionate' and 'kind' people? When in actuality when you consider the options in depth, it may be that you are the one supporting changes that are the opposite of 'tolerant', 'compassionate' and 'kind' because they lead to women and girls being harmed.

I'm not quite sure why the rebranding exercise GGUK is going through at the moment doesn't change the name to Girly Guiding

Guys Hiding

Helleofabore this is precisely the conversation I had with my teenage DD yesterday. She has friends who are NB and one friend taking T. She's as GC as it comes but doesn't express it at all amongst her friends. She has no idea if any of her friends share the same views because no one deviates from the script.
They are all lovely kids, genuinely kind and inclusive and terrified of expressing an opinion outside of the accepted mantras. I'm not sure that's entirely healthy either.

'Girly guiding,guys hiding';I can almost feel a song coming on.

@WickedSerious future campfire classic?

Girly Guiding, Girly Guiding
Boys are hiding, boys are hiding
In the tents with, in the tents with
Your teenage daughters, your teenage daughters

To the tune of Campfire's Burning