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Female pool player Lynne Pinches refuses to play transgender opponent and walks off at start of match

320 replies

IwantToRetire · 14/11/2023 19:14

A pool player has forfeited her chance to win a top national title in protest at the sport allowing a transgender woman to compete against natal females.

Lynne Pinches packed up her cue and walked off as the final of the Ladies Champions of Champions got under way over the weekend.

Spectators clapped and cheered Pinches’ protest while her opponent, Harriet Haynes, appeared bemused before later picking up the trophy by default.
Pinches had been among a host of top female players to speak out in recent days over transgender women being allowed to compete against them in elite competitions.

More Female pool player Lynne Pinches refuses to play transgender opponent and walks off at start of match (yahoo.com)

Female pool player Lynne Pinches refuses to play transgender opponent and walks off

A pool player has forfeited her chance to win a top national title in protest at the sport allowing a transgender woman to compete against natal females.

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/female-pool-player-lynne-pinches-141515605.html

OP posts:
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27
UtopiaPlanitia · 29/11/2023 23:22

ArcaneWireless · 29/11/2023 16:44

All I saw was two women rationally explaining how they were affected by physical differences and one saying it was ok because ‘hormone checks’.

Alexandra was right in that she can’t say it is cheating because she cannot question an individual’s intention. I might differ. But she is also right in that it is (physically) unfair. Deeply so.

And if Amy cannot open her eyes to see that hormones don’t shrink pool players limbs or hands for example then I’m not sure why she is deemed fit to pipe up.

To be fair she lost me when she said there are always injuries in ‘soccer’. That is as maybe. But it doesn’t take a genius to realise that the risk may be multiplied when an 8 stone player is mown down by someone significantly heavier/larger. And that will probably be the case if the opponent is biologically male.

Putting a tennis player into the mix helps not. Unless of course tennis has morphed into a contact sport where you can physically overpower your opponent to stop them getting the ball?

Swimming too? Mon now. I have size 5 flippers and short limbs. I was fairly good in my youth but swimming against an athlete with a significantly larger wing span and great big thighs and feet? I’d be lucky to keep up let alone win.

I doubt taking hormones and the subsequent checks could make anyone transform into a dainty poppet. I’d consider it myself if it did.

What it boils down is that folk need to play fair. And in so many sports that will mean biological males not competing against biological females.

It irritates me when people like Amy keep bringing up Serena Williams as proof that a strong, very fit woman can beat men when Serena (and Venus) is on record as saying she couldn’t beat a professional male tennis player in the top 350 rank. (They both lost to a 203rd ranked man in 1998 and Serena has since vetoed the idea of playing Andy Murray in a suggested exhibition match).

She’s an exceptional athlete but even she can’t be used as proof that male and female athletes are equal.

ErrolTheDragon · 30/11/2023 11:29

She’s an exceptional athlete but even she can’t be used as proof that male and female athletes are equal.

In fact, very much the reverse. She's 'equal' as an athlete to Andy Murray in that if they're each playing in a fair match against a player of their own sex, you should see top-class tennis.

Needmoresleep · 30/11/2023 13:38

DH recently went to the North Belfast football derby, standards some way below the second division, but a fun match all the same.

His verdict. Top women players are much much more skilled. However the men he saw were faster and stronger. The latter probably would beat the former.

Ditto Serena Williams. On several measures: accuracy and range of stroke, tactics, mental toughness, she would probably be up there with the top men. On others, including strength and speed, she would not. Male puberty brings with it real advantages. It’s why we have a woman’s game.

Dowhadiddydiddydum · 03/12/2023 07:48

Hoardasurass · 03/12/2023 01:29

The women are threatening to sue for sex discrimination 🤩
Trans U-turn sees female pool players threaten to sue governing body https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12818367/Trans-U-turn-female-pool-players-sue-governing-body-sex-discrimination.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

Good on them. Women’s categories were introduced to allow female women to be able to enjoy and compete in sport. People who support males playing in the female category think they’re being “inclusive”- without recognising that the whole point of there being a women’s category was so there was inclusion for women!

ArthurbellaScott · 03/12/2023 07:50

Brilliant. All power to their elbows.

southbiscay · 03/12/2023 08:35

Crowdfunder launched supported by FPFW.

southbiscay · 03/12/2023 08:42

The exceptions in the EA allow (but do not mandate) service providers to provide single sex spaces in certain situations without it being considered to be sex discrimination. Gender-affected sport is one such situation. So although the Pool organisations don't have to provide male and female categories, is the argument that because they have done so then to allow a man into the female category is sex discrimination?

What is the risk that pool is not determined to be a gender affected sport or is the fact that separate categories have already been provided evidence that it is?

It's good to see the sex protected characteristic rather than the belief characteristic being cited.

Woman2023 · 03/12/2023 08:49

What is the risk that pool is not determined to be a gender affected sport or is the fact that separate categories have already been provided evidence that it is?

Separate categories could have been provided for reasons other than physical advantages, so the existence of separate categories in themselves doesn't prove that the sport is affected by a person's sex. However, the physical advantages of larger hands, greater reach, more force on break shots etc can be used to show the physical advantages.

It's bonkers how many sports are willing to pretend that men who say they are women just happen to be exceptional at women's sports when presenting "as women".

duc748 · 03/12/2023 12:05

'Gender-affected sport', it seems to me, is a battle that shouldn't have to be fought. Women should not be required to prove that they are at a disadvantage to men to achieve separate female categories; they should be able to do so in any sport. This is the kind of argument that leads to 'no Best Actress at the Oscars', for example.

puffyisgood · 03/12/2023 12:43

duc748 · 03/12/2023 12:05

'Gender-affected sport', it seems to me, is a battle that shouldn't have to be fought. Women should not be required to prove that they are at a disadvantage to men to achieve separate female categories; they should be able to do so in any sport. This is the kind of argument that leads to 'no Best Actress at the Oscars', for example.

Edited

no, I think it's right that the question gets asked but really the assessment should be very simple:

Has the sport's organising body seen fit/seen the need to carve out a distinct female category? If yes, then it's a gender affected sport.

EmpressaurusOfCats · 03/12/2023 19:06

The crowdfunder's over halfway there already!

For people who aren't on X, Google "Let women play pool" and it should come up.

MrsMitford3 · 03/12/2023 22:26

EmpressaurusOfCats · 03/12/2023 19:06

The crowdfunder's over halfway there already!

For people who aren't on X, Google "Let women play pool" and it should come up.

@EmpressaurusOfCats is it crowd justice? trying to donate!!

Cycleorrun · 03/12/2023 22:34

Yes it is, Mrs Mitford.

fromorbit · 04/12/2023 08:56

Ctrowjustice almost 14,000. This will be a great case because ALL the sports pretending women don't exist will be terrified. Women sports players will feel safer speaking out.

Computer games tourneys need to be sued after this.

OutOfSyncWithReality · 04/12/2023 12:31

Amazing news. Donated.

UtopiaPlanitia · 04/12/2023 15:54

ErrolTheDragon · 30/11/2023 11:29

She’s an exceptional athlete but even she can’t be used as proof that male and female athletes are equal.

In fact, very much the reverse. She's 'equal' as an athlete to Andy Murray in that if they're each playing in a fair match against a player of their own sex, you should see top-class tennis.

Thanks Errol, you explained what I was trying to say far better than I did 👍

duc748 · 04/12/2023 19:02

They are screening the mixed doubles now which was supposed to start last week.

TrainedByCats · 04/12/2023 21:15

Good to see support on the CJ site is growing steadily

FixItUpChappie · 04/12/2023 21:23

Still picked up the trophy. God the entitlement is strong with that one

^^This. The default of course had no shame whatsoever.

itsmylife7 · 04/12/2023 21:25

28
days to go
£15,890
pledged of £20,000 target from 667 pledges

still 28 days to go to raise just over £4000.....😃

ATowerOfGiraffes · 05/12/2023 08:36

Donated.
As others have mentioned, I do find it really heartening when so many rally (688 to date), it does make you realise how even what could be perceived to be small donations make a big difference when they all add up together.

SidewaysOtter · 05/12/2023 12:25

Have donated. It's up to nearly £17k now!