Non Binary Gym Changing Rooms

[NevermindNelson]

I’ve just had an email from a gym I use explaining that their changing rooms are going to become gender neutral. I don’t even know where to start to reply. The email states that they’re proud to do this.

I want to reply with the reasons that I’m cancelling my membership, but all I’ve got so far is, “What, seriously?”

Maybe I should just send this - Just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment are about incidents in unisex facilities. Because they have made the changing rooms unisex, haven’t they?

Edited to correct the term as ‘gender neutral’

Hmm. The way this is written, it seems to say changing rooms will be for men or women only but periodically they'll also let women who identify otherwise - so transmen? - into the women's.

Which obviously makes no sense at all since it's not what the special caste wants.

It needs to be responded to in the same way an adult would be responded to who brazened their way into a children's soft play ball pit insisting they were five years old, or marching into an operating theatre declaring that they are a nurse. Or a customer marching into a staff room and using the facilities there declaring that they are a member of staff.

I am still confused as to whether they are saying the women’s changing room is for either:
a) women and sometimes women who don’t like to call themselves women
b) women and sometimes men who want to be women

If they are a) then are they going to control b) when word gets round? Because the language they’re using is not clear.

And if b) how are they going to control the ‘sometimes’ when word gets round and how are they catering for the women who don’t want mixed sex get changed?

I am so impressed by your determination! It's like kicking custard.

"When you say "inclusive" do you mean you are including men in the women's changing rooms?"

surely the question now is what are the times when the changing rooms will be mixed sex?
If its only once a week for an hour then I'd be inclined to let it go provided this was clearly advertised AND it wasn't the only opportunity for a certain class. EG they do this on tuesdays 7-9 pm but that's also the only time they do a Pilates class.
But if its random and more frequent then they are disadvantaging and hence discriminating against women who have a reasonable expectation of a single sex changing room.
I wonder if this is turning out to be more troublesome than they expected. They might welcome the solution that 'people unhappy changing in the space for their sex are welcome to access the disabled toilet where they can change in privacy, simply ask staff who will be happy to help'

people unhappy changing in the space for their sex are welcome to access the disabled toilet where they can change in privacy

If an actual disabled person wants to use it, that will cause issues. It's not a good enough solution, imo, women are entitled to their own changing rooms and shouldn't be fobbed off with disabled toilets/broom cupboards.

obviously the person with disabilities would have priority, the person wanting special treatment would have to wait (I'm imagining them wrapped in a towel getting chilly after a swim)

You can just see it, huddles of cold, dripping women in the foyer waiting to get changed in the disabled toilet because their changing room has got blokes in it. That's going to go down like a cup of cold sick.

A third space with larger than normal sized cubicles would above all provide somewhere for a parent and child, or someone who uses a stoma bag, or another condition where they would need extra space to maintain privacy. Not just anyone who wishes to be known by other than their sex at birth.

And will they be expected to pay the same fees as those belonging to the luckier groups without protected characteristics/don't mind getting stripped in front of random men, who get fully equipped proper changing rooms?

Quick update - I had a call with the CEO.

We both got some digs in, I asked about the difference between a non-binary penis and an indecent exposure penis; he said that he didn’t think that middle-class white women in London were the most oppressed group, but it was politely done.

he said that he felt it was a nice thing to do and it wasn’t being widely advertised, I said that yes it was if he went to Instagram. He said that men would just walk into women’s changing rooms, I said that the fact they aren’t allowed made it possible to complain, bit more back and forward like this.

They refunded my money, but said I’d be welcome if I wanted to come back.

I had all the info in one document - most of it copied and pasted from this thread, so thank you to everyone who’s contributed 🙏

Well done OP. The CEO couldn’t have been more clear that they don’t give a shit about women. Trans activism is an opportunity for people to express their misogyny with confidence 😡 Glad you got your money back.

This neatly illustrates why we needs rights and safeguarding codified into clearly written laws.
Without them policies are written on unfounded beliefs about the supposed privilege of women.

Middle class white women? So he assumes that no non-white women at the gym will have a problem with this? Or are they simply irrelevant?

His did you feel after the call took place?

Aren't middle class white women quite a key customer?

I think the middle class thing was a dig at me - how dare I feel oppression. I find it quite funny that he assumed my class, but maybe I have a nice speaking voice 🤷🏻‍♀️

@stillholly I was glad I’d had the call and been able to explain some of the issues, he didn’t seem aware of any potential problems at all, so I many have planted a seed.

@AlisonDonut Im pretty sure they’re the majority in some of the classes, if you widen it out to just middle class, then an even bigger majority.

Don't they still need to advertise that sometimes these changing rooms are going to be mixed sex?

Actually, I now realise that is what he's done, which is why you're complaining.

But I'm sure some people haven't really taken it in.

He said they’re not advertising and the people who’d turn up would only be jolly decent fellows. But their collaborator is advertising, so who knows. He said they won’t be doing it at my local gym again, they’ll be doing it at the other venues and will be working out how to make all facilities unisex.

If gyms want unisex changing then they need cubicles with lockable doors, then I have no issue. Ditto showers with lockable doors and toilets with sink in the cubicle.

But if unisex means men coming into the ladies open changing then no, not right!

Good grief the misogyny and prejudice there.

Hence Kemi Badenoch's letter this week pointing out, in essence, protected characteristics and legal protections do not just belong to your personal special pet groups, and if you fuck about with equality to virtue signal your insurer's bum may be bit quite hard.

So glad only middle class white women (which he appears to be saying to rhyme with 'scum') with no cultural or faith based or disability based or other disadvantages are his customers - although how enthusiastically they'll stay his customers when they realise his attitude to women, I couldn't say. Rather like his 'selected jolly good lovely men' who will be bringing their penises into women's spaces, possibly he's another Layla Moran and has vetted them all personally.

Dickhead.

With unisex facilities quite effectively excluding large numbers of women, particularly the marginalised ones.

I say again.

Dickhead. So fed up with these self righteous fools busily exercising all their prejudices and snobbery while congratulating themselves on their 'open mindedness'.