Non Binary Gym Changing Rooms

[NevermindNelson]

I’ve just had an email from a gym I use explaining that their changing rooms are going to become gender neutral. I don’t even know where to start to reply. The email states that they’re proud to do this.

I want to reply with the reasons that I’m cancelling my membership, but all I’ve got so far is, “What, seriously?”

Maybe I should just send this - Just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment are about incidents in unisex facilities. Because they have made the changing rooms unisex, haven’t they?

Edited to correct the term as ‘gender neutral’

Fucking madness. I would also opt out and find somewhere else

@CriticalCondition Well what a surprise 🙄 no wonder I haven’t heard anything back for over a week. They’re just ignoring me until I go away - which means they get to keep my money.

@MrsElijahMikaelson1 I plan to, but they won’t reply to my email asking for my membership to end.

That’s so rude @NevermindNelson. Sounds like you’ll have to go in there and speak to someone in person about cancelling and getting your money back.

Go in just as a large class of women are arriving and ask loudly!

Oh... and if you email again maybe tell them you're going to contact the local newspaper

I find an email straight to the top usually prompts a pretty swift reply, even if it's from one of their minions. The CEO's work email will be findable somewhere online.

That’s the thing, I got an email saying the CEO wanted to talk me - I’ve given them availability and they’ve completely ignored me. Their last email to me was November 22nd. I think they’re hoping I’ll just go away.

Yes, you said OP that email was from an ops person and you've had no response despite several chasers. If I were in your shoes I'd leapfrog them, find the CEO's email and contact him directly asking him some short and pithy questions about your safety, dignity and privacy in this open mixed-sex changing area and his insurance and legal position. If he can't answer them to your satisfaction then insist on a refund of your fees.

He won't want a public hoo ha about this. I suspect he'll refund you and wave you on your way. When it's gone quiet he might subsequently 'suspend' the policy for some unspecified 'operational reason'. One can hope I suppose.

I’ve copied this directly from the article I posted above - “Creating gender neutral changing rooms has been a challenge in our existing sites, as they weren’t designed with this in mind…” This is the CEO, so I don’t think they feel there’s any further explanation needed.

“Creating gender neutral changing rooms has been a challenge in our existing sites, as they weren’t designed with this in mind…”

Well, no shit, Sherlock. They might not think any further flannel explanation is needed but I'd quote his own words at him and ask how he has met the challenge and preserved the safety, dignity and privacy of his female clients. And whether his insurers and legal advisors are aware of the new mixed sex changing arrangements.

And that he's just exchanged one challenge for another as opposed to develop actual progress, as a much larger chunk of their clientele, current and future, will require single sex provision for accessibility.

The hit will come to the bank balance, and to the LAs when it becomes painfully clear (again, we did all this 20 years ago) that gosh, large swathes of vulnerable women just aren't exercising, with all the issues involved for health and social integration and so on. Why on earth could that be? What can we possibly do to draw them into this provision and spending their money in it?

Are we just going to create a world for young blue haired exciting people? And are they planning to fund everyone else to just stay at home?

I hope you get your money back, NevermindNelson.

The hit will come to the bank balance, and to the LAs when it becomes painfully clear (again, we did all this 20 years ago) that gosh, large swathes of vulnerable women just aren't exercising, with all the issues involved for health and social integration and so on. Why on earth could that be? What can we possibly do to draw them into this provision and spending their money in it?

There was a news article recently about a council offering women only swimming for Muslim women. As if it was a new initiative.

Up until a few years ago all my local pools (about 6) offered weekly women only swimming as standard. I used to attend some and it was women of a variety of backgrounds including Muslim.

Obviously women were no longer allowed this because it might hurt the feelings of some men. I guess the view is taken that offering women only sessions to Muslim women is less likely to be challenged and therefore safer for the pool.

Drives me nuts.

The need was identified: those women 'hard to reach' in the terms of the time, difficulties with access leisure, exercise, leaving their homes, language barriers, yada yada - the answer? Let's fund female only swimming.

And it was well used and it worked. And then bright sparks went 'lets make it even more inclusive by taking men into women only swim sessions if they identify as women because how lovely for them to be women in a women only group'.

And you see that all those who feel lovely about being inclusive have not the first bloody clue about the barriers for those women or about the realities, or anything at all beyond 'isn't it nice to be nice'. And yes, men wanted in on those sessions to use them and the women in them for their own reasons, and those women have just quietly stopped attending, because now they can't. And all their barriers are back again.

Actually sense such as 'lets have LGBT specific swim sessions' or 'lets have mixed sex women identified sessions and female only sessions at different times' and see what the number take up is and how many client needs are met? Is apparently beyond capacity.

It's like the bloody Hampstead Ponds, where men who want everything all the time have three pools to choose from and a lot of women who were regulars at the women's pool, including orthodox Jewish women who could only use a female only session, now have lost all access at all. It would have been so easy to say 'these times for mixed sex identified women' for TW/other identity choices and women unaffected by mixed sex, and 'these times for females only, anyone else will be required to use the mixed sex pool'.

But no. You get immediately 'you won't be able to tell' (which makes clear that men will never respect female needs and will just try to deceive their way in regardless), and how awful it is for poor men to have to cope with the knowledge that they are not female (but not awful for female people to lose all access, because only female, it's not like they're human like the males are). And you have the gleeful triumph about men having won and women having lost.

It was around this point I realised how pointless it is to try and be reasonable when you're not up against a genuine inclusion issue; you're up against bloody awful behaviour.

However there are some males who not only ID as women but Muslim women. So how is that going to work?

Sex not gender, and not allowing men to exclude women by a lot of wangling and clownfish burbling. And taking men seriously when they say that they are female or have legally falsified documents.

It cannot exist in the same space as female equality. To give that to men, you have to remove equality and access from women. And in much much higher numbers and with more serious issues than the occasional bloke who needs for personal reasons to believe that they are a Muslim female.

He can be very very welcome to enact being a Muslim female in a Womxn's or whatever session, while respecting and staying out of the female only session. If he wants his inclusion needs respected, he needs to respect women's inclusion needs.

They won’t reply. I’ve sent three emails since their last one on November 22nd 🤷🏻‍♀️ I’m going to have to look at getting my money back from the credit card company.

They have made their position clear and they don’t want any discussion around it.

@NevermindNelson if the credit card company won't help you can take them to small claims court and listen to them explain to the judge why they should get to keep your money

Email is ignorable but a nice formal letter to the CEO sent recorded delivery is less so. Refer to your previous 3 emails to which they have not yet responded. It doesn't cost much or commit you to anything, but it indicates a willingness to escalate and unwillingness to be fobbed off.

Perhaps contact the Telegraph's consumer champion with your story?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/katie-investigates/katie-morley-investigates-contact-form/

This is perfect. Going old school with a recorded letter looks like you mean business and there's no chance they can claim it got lost/accidentally deleted.

I remember my old boss sending mail like this marked ‘private’ and using a fancy envelope and spraying a bit of perfume on it. She said that whoever manages their mail wouldn’t dare open it and the recipient would be guaranteed to open it themselves.

Brilliant! Mentally filing that one away for future use.

With 'SWALK' on the back?