A new bill to ban conversion therapy will be debated in Parliament after all

[IwantToRetire]

Despite being absent from the King’s Speech earlier this week, a new bill to ban conversion therapy will be debated in Parliament after all. Humanists UK is delighted that the All-Party Parliamentary Humanist Group Vice Chair Baroness Burt of Solihull’s Private Member’s Bill, Conversion Therapy Prohibition (Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity) Bill, has been drawn first in the House of Lords ballot. As the first Bill to be drawn, it is possible that, if it received sufficient support, it could become law.
https://humanists.uk/2023/11/09/humanists-uk-welcomes-private-members-bill-to-ban-conversion-therapy/

Also reported here https://uk.news.yahoo.com/conversion-therapy-ban-bill-debated-164935528.html

(Not sure how in terms of Parliamentary time a private members bill from the House of Lords will get. But if both the HoL and HoC nod it through, presumably it has a good chance.)

I can't see it being nodded through. And it's adding to the experience of MPs that this pernicious lobby never stop trying to weasel things through.

You'd think the Humanists would have some humanity towards women, rather than towards men with a fetish.
No wonder the bill was left out of the King's Speech - they didn't need to include it cos it's going to be brought in through the back door.
Appalling.

No wonder the bill was left out of the King's Speech - they didn't need to include it cos it's going to be brought in through the back door.

Baroness Burt is a LibDem. There are many reasons to criticise the current government, but this isn't one of them.

The vast majority of Private Members’ Bills never get anywhere in Parliament. These Bills only succeed if they have government support. IIRC there used to be an MP who delighted in killing them off by objecting to/speaking against them in early stage debates because he thought they were poorly conceived/written.

We can hope this Bill doesn’t get government support.

We can hope this Bill doesn’t get government support.

And I suspect with only a year of being the Government the Tories will have other bills and ammendments they will want to prioritise.

Which is why I suspect getting the EA changed to correctly identify that sex means bilogical, will also not happen.

LD s are completely captured of course. I guess it depends if gvmt knew it was on the agenda or not

LD s are completely captured of course.

And also, why I referred to nodding through, many MPs (who should know better) think that a bill to ban convertion therapy is about protecting lesbians and gay men. They dont recognise that it also relates to those being encouraged to transition. That's the problem.

And if all this uniformed MPs have their bleeding hearts tugged at - "we must protect gay people" - the bill could get nodded through.

They have been made to think that not passing it would be as bad as those who passed Section 28.

The House of Lords is very unlikely to nod this through. They’ve thrown lots of spanners into the transactivists works in recent years, thank goodness. Hopefully they will, once again, hold the government to account.

Private Members Bills almost never get passed. Certainly they don't get nodded through. There was very very nearly a successful private members bill to ban upskirting and a single (bastard) MP was able to scupper it. A single MP asking sensible common sense questions is all that is needed for this case (though morecthan one would be even better). There are some openly non-koolaid-swigging MPs aren't there?

Real conversion therapy is already illegal. A conversion therapy ban that had clear definitions and clarification that counselling to help untangle comorbid issues isn't would not add much to existing law. Something that clarified that "transing the gay away" pricesses (better to have a straight (trans) daughter than a gay son/better to have a straight (trans) son than a lesbian daughter) is conversion therapy would be interesting but isn't usually specified as a target of these bans.

For some reason using the phrase "nodded through" has set some off on a tangent.

By nodding through I was referring to the widely reported idea that the majority of MPs (and the HoL?) thought a bill like this was needed.

ie that yet again Stonewall et al have managed to create a false impression that this is about protecting same sex attracted people.

The vast majority of people, and I suspect many politicians, aren't as well informed as posters on FWR.

And also, why I referred to nodding through, many MPs (who should know better) think that a bill to ban conversion therapy is about protecting lesbians and gay men. They don't recognise that it also relates to those being encouraged to transition. That's the problem.

That MPs are... ill-informed? Incurious? Lazy? Not doing their jobs?

I also think people are aware of how the Party Whip works in UK politics - MPs often vote as told by the Whips and unless they want to damage their prospects for advancement they just nod things through as instructed.

I presume, however, that a vote on this issue might be a free vote to allow MPs to vote per their conscience but I agree with you that Stonewall etc muddying the water on the truth of what they want a ban to achieve will make this an ongoing tricky issue in parliament.

I mean ... how are you going to word it so that it's still clearly legal to do eminently sensible stuff, like the guy at the Tavi GIDS who was sitting young patients down with people who had had drugs, surgery, and been 'living as the opposite sex' for years, so they could get an idea of what the reality of all that entsiled.

What. EXACTLY do they think is bad and want to stop? Who are doing these things now? Would a law make any difference?

What other sorts of therapy are banned right now, why, and was the ban worth it? If the answer is "no other sorts", why is this special?

If we get concrete examples then we can unpick what the problem genuinely is, and see clearly whether there is any point to legislation.

Agree that if it remains a Private Members bill whips wont be involved. So it could be (say on a friday afternoon) there are only 10 MPs present (has been known) and all it would need is 6 to vote Yes. Bu

I think, but dont know what %, that Private Members bills that do become law, usually are incorporated into a larger Bill that the Government is pushing through. (Though not aware of any proposed Government bills that this could easily by incorporated into unless they suddently decided they would amend the EA.)

Although as I sak earlier the fact that a GE is so close I am not sure what chance it has. This describes the process in full:

A bill can start its journey in either House.
First reading is the formal presentation of the bill and doesn’t involve any debate. Government bills are usually published immediately after first reading. The House debates the general principles of the bill at second reading, and amendments (proposed changes) at committee stage and report stage. The House decides whether to agree the bill at third reading.
The bill then passes to the other House. The first House is asked to agree with amendments made by the second.
Once both Houses are agreed, the bill receives Royal Assent and becomes law.
https://guidetoprocedure.parliament.uk/collections/6jKbMbJM/bill-stages

All of this ^^

Linking to Utopia's excellent thread with the article from a US legal case, a gay detransitioner who: argues that by approving him for hormones and surgeries, Fenway Health subjected him to “gay conversion” practices, in violation of his civil rights. Carlan v. Fenway Community Health Center is the first lawsuit in the United States to argue that “gender-affirming care” can be a form of anti-gay discrimination.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4939896-4939896-gay-detransitioner-sues-american-hospital-for-anti-gay-discrimination?reply=130626120

Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Debate was on 9th February 2024
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2024-02-09/debates/DB690A34-D945-4EDA-9178-DD6357498F45/ConversionTherapyProhibition(SexualOrientationAndGenderIdentity)Bill(HL)

And the article referenced in the discussion is I think this one https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4998158-conversion-therapy-it-must-be-banned-i-should-know-times-article?reply=132681237

Meant to add this as well from Sex Matters https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/conversion-therapy-again/