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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Philippa Gregory thinks that two sexes, male and female, is a "myth"

142 replies

Fenlandia · 30/10/2023 17:33

According to journalist Susan Dalgety's Substack (a good read), the author Philippa Gregory, who has sold gazillions of historical fiction novels, thinks there are more sexes than we first thought!

https://susandalgety.substack.com/p/philippa-gregory-may-be-a-bestselling

Here is the quote from Dalgety:

"Philippa Gregory, who prides herself as a feminist, does not believe in the “myth of two sexes.” She writes glowingly of a modern world where it is impossible to divide humans into two categories, male and female. “It is as fictional as a sorting hat – we are more diverse than and more varied, and more changeable over time, in a richer multiple word than the binary model…” And she points out that in the 1990s, American sexologist, Anne Fausto-Sterling, counted five sexes (male, female, merm, ferm and herm), while French scientist Eric Vilain suggested an “infinite number of biological genders.” It was at this point I dropped my coffee cup."

And yet again with the tedious trope that in order for people to be interesting and the world to be diverse, we must dispense with the fact of the sex binary by which every single human has been produced, ever.

Philippa Gregory may be a bestselling historical novelist, but facts still matter

Author of Normal Women believes that two sexes, male and female, is a "myth"

https://susandalgety.substack.com/p/philippa-gregory-may-be-a-bestselling

OP posts:
EverySporkIsSacred · 30/10/2023 18:06

I don't believe in "the myth of two sexes" either because its a FACT

FeckArseIndusty · 30/10/2023 18:11

Phillipa Gregory identifies as a historian but then writes fiction based purely on outrageous myths of the time.
I'm not surprised she is attracted to the 'no truth, no evidence, no facts' side of the debate.

spookehtooth · 30/10/2023 18:16

The only problem I have with it is the word myth. Undoubtedly there are many different classification systems, and all of them are valid. I think myth and some of the presentation and argument is probably deliberately stirring the pot for the sake of book sales.

I think myth is a problem because of the way it appears to minimise or disregard all of the horrible history associated with the "mythical" classification system, and denys the unquestionable uses it has in a number of areas of life. Any other classification system has to live alongside the sex classification system, not replace it

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 30/10/2023 18:26

FeckArseIndusty · 30/10/2023 18:11

Phillipa Gregory identifies as a historian but then writes fiction based purely on outrageous myths of the time.
I'm not surprised she is attracted to the 'no truth, no evidence, no facts' side of the debate.

'Trained feminist historian' who has invented a new way of writing historical fiction, if you DON'T mind.

Does she have a book coming out, by any chance?

YouJustDoYou · 30/10/2023 18:27

I think prostate and ovarian cancer begs to differ.

RaininginDarling · 30/10/2023 18:36

And yet every person that exists has been created via a male and female parent. What an extraordinary coincidence eye roll

twattydogshavetwattypeople · 30/10/2023 18:43

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 30/10/2023 18:26

'Trained feminist historian' who has invented a new way of writing historical fiction, if you DON'T mind.

Does she have a book coming out, by any chance?

Does she ever not have a book coming out?

Villagetoraiseachild · 30/10/2023 18:46

Eye roll and yawn.
She's off with the fairies....
And i mean the fairies, not using a euphemism.

Abhannmor · 30/10/2023 18:54

Oh fuck. I do love a good historical novel. They can even play fast and loose with facts up to a point. Wasn't there one about the alleged female Pope? A rattling good yarn etc. But this is too much. Perhaps she could branch out into writing fantasy ....

ErrolTheDragon · 30/10/2023 18:54

Why do supposedly intelligent people get confused by something as simple as the difference between sex (two, biological, dimorphic, non-interchangeable in mammals) and 'gender' (as many as you want, culturally variable etc).?

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 30/10/2023 19:02

I do love a good historical novel

Emphasis on good, though. I read The Boleyn Inheritance and on finishing it had two thoughts. One was 'how on EARTH did this shit get published and would it have been without PG's name on it?' and the other one was a dictum of Dorothy Parker. 'This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force.'

Fenlandia · 30/10/2023 19:03

ErrolTheDragon · 30/10/2023 18:54

Why do supposedly intelligent people get confused by something as simple as the difference between sex (two, biological, dimorphic, non-interchangeable in mammals) and 'gender' (as many as you want, culturally variable etc).?

Exactly. It doesn't pass the 'sniff test' in any way for there to be more than two sexes in mammals and many other kinds of life. Even clownfish only have two sexes!

OP posts:
DSDaisy · 30/10/2023 19:04

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

Precipice · 30/10/2023 19:10

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 30/10/2023 19:02

I do love a good historical novel

Emphasis on good, though. I read The Boleyn Inheritance and on finishing it had two thoughts. One was 'how on EARTH did this shit get published and would it have been without PG's name on it?' and the other one was a dictum of Dorothy Parker. 'This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force.'

The Boleyn Inheritance isn't so bad. It can get worse. I 'recommend' to you Brandy/Emily Purdy's The Boleyn Wife. Not only is Jane Parker listening behind every door and every bush because the author can't think of another way of conveying information, but there's also a sex scene involving Anne of Cleves, Catherine Howard, and a jar of honey.

CorruptedCauldron · 30/10/2023 19:11

Oh dear. Trying to be trendy, it always backfires in the end.

I can only pray that all the
gullible muppets harping on about “sex isn’t a binary”, basking in the superior glow of what they believe are their sophisticated, scientific analyses, will one day realise their refined, sartorially elegant Emperor is as stark bollock naked as the day he was born (via a female XX type who had been impregnated by a male XY type).

In the future, I hope these “sex isn’t binary” goons will come to feel thoroughly embarrassed by all the nonsensical crap they trotted out when the world temporarily lost its head. They will have no sympathy from me; they deserve to feel like fools. That’s what they are, you see. Flat bloody Earthers. Logic vacuums.

dapsnotplimsolls · 30/10/2023 19:29

Gosh, I wonder if PG has any trans relatives?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/10/2023 19:35

And she points out that in the 1990s, American sexologist, Anne Fausto-Sterling, counted five sexes (male, female, merm, ferm and herm)

Does she realise Fausto Sterling has said that was "tongue in cheek"?

tobee · 30/10/2023 19:39

What an absolute load of hogwash borne of a mind that has absolutely no worries and concerns that ordinary people have; needing to be in touch with any kind of reality.

What privilege! I'm so fed up with people getting any oxygen with this totally vapid and dangerous cult.

tobee · 30/10/2023 19:40

Correction vacuous not vapid

FreddysSquishyBollock · 30/10/2023 19:43

Silly sausage.

How does she think babies are made?

NitroNine · 30/10/2023 19:45

Perhaps she could branch out into writing fantasy ....

I thought she pretty much had. Just with a disappointing absence of dragons. (I like to think that in the future all books will come with the option to insert dragons & thus force a change in the narrative 😄)

Tinysoxxx · 30/10/2023 19:51

I’d prescribe a long dose of living on farm and a gcse biology text book for her.

Delphinium20 · 30/10/2023 19:54

My only thought is she's being fed some Twitter science by a trans niece or something.

I did enjoy Tidelands, but it has one female character who has a lot of sexy sex with a dashing priest and then, despite having 2 children already, is surprised to find out she's pregnant. Maybe that was PG own confusion on how babies are made?

ErrolTheDragon · 30/10/2023 19:55

NitroNine · 30/10/2023 19:45

Perhaps she could branch out into writing fantasy ....

I thought she pretty much had. Just with a disappointing absence of dragons. (I like to think that in the future all books will come with the option to insert dragons & thus force a change in the narrative 😄)

Excellent idea, so long as books which already have dragons don't have an option to remove them.Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 30/10/2023 19:59

Tinysoxxx · 30/10/2023 19:51

I’d prescribe a long dose of living on farm and a gcse biology text book for her.

Oddly enough it appears she used to live on a farm in the North York Moors. You'd imagine she'd know there was a distinct difference between the sexes, there's no mistaking a ram for an ewe!