School sports

[AlphaTransWoman]

Do you think it is ever acceptable to force a child assigned male at birth to participate in contact sports at school such as football or rugby. If so do you appreciate the distress this may cause to children born with a male body who have a female gender identity?

I’m pondering on the similarity of the starting positions of trans people like Alpha and gender critical feminists. I can see from one aspect that both start from the same position, that some people find gendered expectations a cruel cage. Both agree that the cage exists. Both want, in some way, to escape the cage they are initially placed in.

However, transwomen want to get into a cage that has all the other women in it, call that cage womanhood and close the door behind them. Gender critical women want the cage destroyed, or at the very least, the doors wide open, so anyone is free to come and go as they please.

Then we come to sex. Gender critical women may not like the gendered expectation cage, but they still want sometimes to receive different treatment to men, because they can see that their bodies are not men’s bodies. They are on average weaker, smaller, they menstruate and become pregnant. They don’t want a prison with the name woman on it, just a private space where they can cope with the additional vulnerabilities that their sexed bodies require. They’ve been used to having this space - it’s valuable to them and they have a real need for it.

Why are we being asked to believe that we don’t need this sexed space, because it’s been taken over by a branch of the gender prison that now has transwomen in it? In fact, we’re told, it was never a single sexed space, it was always a gendered space. Get back in your cage, women. You are no different to the transwomen who have climbed in there with you and the door must remain locked at all times.

surely It’s Feminism 101 - whether you call yourself GC or not (I don’t as being critical of gender stereotyping is so much a part of feminism I don’t know how you can be feminist without having those beliefs, but I wouldn’t stop anyone else using the term for themselves.)

All other branches of feminism may look from different angles but I don’t know how you can say gender stereotypes (which is what Gender Identity is) are compatible with feminism.

(is some of the idea that GC feminism a separate branch down to modern feminism assuming women have won all the battles? Women who have never noticed all the other issues women face? I genuinely don’t know and would be interested in exploring this but not on this thread, of course. I don’t know as much as some of the women here, I may be missing something blindingly obvious).

It's all such sexist bollocks. I drive my husband around (although that is because he's a stereotypically lazy man 😉 ) and I'm the mouthy, lairy one. He's a gentle giant while I'm a right vicious cow 😀 I'll smack you, he won't 😀 perhaps we're both trans and trapped in the wrong bodies 🤣🤣🤣

Actually, I took him to see Swan Lake and he fell asleep so maybe he is a real man after all 🙄

Then we come to sex. Gender critical women may not like the gendered expectation cage, but they still want sometimes to receive different treatment to men, because they can see that their bodies are not men’s bodies

I just want to quote this bit of nellodee’s post to add I think most men would want this too for their own reasons. Some will be medical, men don’t want to be called for cervical cancer treatments or be asked if there’s a chance they’re pregnant - and sometimes men will want single sex spaces for dignity (eg all male washing/changing/toilet facilities) where they are not physically unsafe but still have legitimate needs to be away from women.

Single sex provision certainly benefits men too. Of course they are entitled to their own spaces for rape support, male cancer and men's health discussion. Although I can't imagine many women insisting they had to gatecrash these because they had put on a man-gender costume.

"Modern feminists" or "liberal feminists" or whatever you want to call them have essentially redefined feminism, and then turned round and told old school second wave feminists that our feminism isn't feminism if it doesn't include trans women.

No. Our feminism is not your feminism because you have changed the definition of feminism whereas we are still using the old definition. The one where feminism was about equal rights for female people. The clue is in the word. FEMinism. FEMale.

If you try to expand feminism to include male people, it is no longer about female people. Even more so, if, when there is a conflict between what female people want and need and what the male people you think should now be included want and need, you prioritise the male people. Prioritising male people over female people is literally the opposite of feminism.

But most "liberal feminists" come across as so privileged that they probably do actually think women have won all the battles and everything's fine now, so we're free to focus on people who are really marginalised.

If you redefine what 'marginalised' means. 'Pandered to'?

This came up in my FB memories today. 2nd wave feminism in a nutshell

On brains, this conveniently popped up:

Regarding the brain, many academics insist that there are no sex differences while also insisting that people who identify as trans have brains that match those of the opposite sex. Of course, both cannot be true.

At a recent conference, I asked neuroscientist @Lise_Eliot, who argues that male and female brains are not dimorphic, for her views on this apparent paradox.

ME: Assuming what you said is true, that the brains of males and females are monomorphic, what do you make of the body of research claiming to find that brains of people who identify as transgender have brain structures that appear to be shifted away from what’s typical of their actual sex and towards what’s more typical of the sex they identify with?

This is regularly used, even in court, to argue that trans people have a “brain sex” of the opposite sex. But if there’s no sexual dimorphism, how can this research claim to find a shift? And would the premise of this research be unsound?

LISE: I’m happy to address that because I’ve studied the literature on transgender brain imaging and it’s just as much of a mess as the sex difference research. There are almost no reproduced findings in that literature, so if it is being used in court cases that’s inappropriate.

https://x.com/swipewright/status/1716936225821532448?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

The dodgy brain studies are taught in aqa psychology gce a level sex and gender topic as fact. The trite the kids then write that has to be credited is offensive to me, as the studies are stated as facts and I'm not sure the level 3 students understand the criticisms. They should but I don't find they do.
Anyone who wants to take this up with the exam board please do !

I've been missing in action the last few weeks and so have missed much!

Just catching up and got to lady brains

Fuck me!!!

So Fucking sick of this shit!

Don’t read the OP’s AMA @Boiledbeetle. It’s even worse.

Too late i just had quick flick through the OPs posts linked up thread!

I stand by the comments made in my previous post!

@Boiledbeetle I got myself a week ban for my responses to that thread. Mn say any misogyny and awful sexism is ok as its not a personal attack, my answer was too personal. I do feel quite personally attacked by most of the posts from op but do get the reasoning of letting the sunlight show how tras justify their belief system.
I certainly pointed out the terrible message this sends to gnc boys who don't feel free to be themselves, perpetuating the issues op faced as a child.

I had no doubt that it would only further cement that response!

my own summary would be less polite and measured. 🤦🏻‍♀️

I might go back and read the whole thing at some point. It's probably a good job it seems full so I won't be able to comment.

the rigid gender stereotyping of the trans rights movement is shocking in how stunted the thinking it is with regards what women and men girls and boys should/are expected do and present as just because they were born as one sex or another is so bloody regressive!

So what if you don't like the same thing as some of the girls or boys in your class growing up. Neither is a homogenous group all acting and thinking like one hive mind and just because you are one sex and like things connected, in some people's opinion, with the other sex does not mean you should have been the other sex.

It's just all so frigging stupid!

So what if you don't like the same thing as some of the girls or boys in your class growing up. Neither is a homogenous group all acting and thinking like one hive mind and just because you are one sex and like things connected, in some people's opinion, with the other sex does not mean you should have been the other sex.
It's just all so frigging stupid!

Especially as if you sound out people of the same sex as you you will find that you aren't the only boy who hates rugby or the only girl who loves football. Your tribe are out there and you will probably have a better connection with them than you do with one based on wild sweeping generalized notions of what that group is like based on your own inaccurate stereotypes.

Wonder what else OP thinks women shouldn't like? Trains, planes and automobiles? Ships? Being good at maths or science? Sensible shoes?

I hated PE at school, because I was in a group where some girls took it deadly seriously and I didn't. Also I hate being wet and cold. My favourite things were rounders, swimming and gymnastics (we only ever did the type with ribbons once,) however we were expected to do all the sports, and put me off them for life.

Obviously science is just too hard for our silly little last brains. We need to stick to showing our talents in embroidery if we want to find ourselves a good position in society through marriage.

😂😂 I know it's just staggering how the OP mind works, although I think it's more likely a wind up. OP please tell me you don't really think like you do.

Also most people don't have a gender identity, I think we just call it a personality....

@IncomingTraffic 🤣 Science and history were my best subjects at school. Not so much as an adult as I left school after my GCSEs, so I never pursued them as careers, although I still take an interest in them. Incidentally to do what I'd really love to do (working in the make up industry) I'd need a chemistry degree.

Ships are probably ok, seeing as they all have she/her pronouns.

I don't think ability at maths is in any way gender specific since that is all about abstract reasoning skills which are statistically equal for both sexes.

@AlphaTransWoman The only things that are statistically unequal between the sexes are relative strength, height and weight. This is why sex categories are the fairest way to divvy things up.

@SpiderMaam True that. Has anyone complained about it yet?

So women aren't supposed to like contact sports but it's okay for us to be good at maths?