Book sales figures & Tough Crowd

[DataPestle]

Anyone in publishing here, with access to Bookscan? I trust Popbitch usually, but am very, very surprised to see their sales figures of 390 for Tough Crowd. I’m wondering if someone’s sent them sales figures for an odd edition (large print, audio) rather than hardback numbers, but does anyone with actual access to Bookscan have info?

It’s possible sales are that bad, but as I say, I would be surprised.

(Bookscan is across all publishers and should include Amazon, supermarkets, independent booksellers, and the publisher’s own sales.)

I ordered from the publisher mostly because I wanted a signed copy but also because I wanted to support the publisher. From conversations both online and irl, I think quite a few people did the same.

I don't think it includes direct sales from the publisher, but am not 100% sure on www.eye-books.com's situation.

If they're not including publisher or Amazon sales that just makes their figures wildly inaccurate - surely it would make them pretty inaccurate by excluding Amazon with any book but even more so with a specific drive to buy from the publisher in this case. I'm not sure how they can publish those figures as indicative of sales figures in good conscience.

Thank you. Simon Edge seems to confirm that the number does not include pre - orders from Eye Books directly -

twitter.com/simonjedge/status/1715340566437704131

Just started reading my copy, which I ordered direct from the publisher. That must make me one of the 300+ then! 🤣. Ps. Well done Mr Linehan.

It does include Amazon physical copy sales.

That's the publishers choice to make, they can sell direct for more profit or sell exclusively through booksellers to push the title higher up the Nielsen compiled Sunday Times bestsellers chart (which can lead to more sales, especially if the title gets in the top ten).

You’re Katy Montgomerie, aren’t you? I cannot understand why you are dissembling to such a degree otherwise.

It is a fair point though. We don't know how the order numbers are assigned.

On the other hand, given that the amount of sales which were quoted on PopBitch does not include either sales direct from the publisher or Kindle sales on Amazon, it's likely that the number of copies (both physical and digital) sold is rather higher than what appears on Book Scan.

It'll be interesting to see final numbers. I imagine if a retraction is forthcoming from Pop Bitch, it'll be very much in the same vein as the planning permission in Hitchhiker's Guide.

I think this demonstrates why we need robust and clearly defined data collection. By Bookstand's methodology only 390 copies have been sold but without it being clear what sales haven't been included then that figure is highly misleading.

Does GL get royalties for each book (or e-book or whatever) sold, no matter what the outlet? Are royalty figures made public and is that in real time (or is it quarterly / annual figure, published months hence)?

He should do. It would be a weirdly drawn-up contract otherwise. Amazon kindle, Kobo, Apple Books, audio books, etc.

I've also been told amazon can't deliver my pre ordered copy. I was happy as I thought that must mean it had sold out!

It says they'll contact me again when they have a delivery date...

Should have ordered direct from publisher, gah...

Well I'm about a third of the way through already. It's a bloody good read , so funny. Lots of great insights into music, film and writing comedy. I've just got to where they are casting for Fr.Ted. I won't spoil it but I'm definitely buying another copy as a Christmas present.

We still haven't got our copy (pre ordered from Amazon), Simon Edge says they have had to reprint twice. The initial print run was 10k copies, GL signed 3k of those and 2k were sent out direct to customers for publication date. (Apparently these 2k sales are not included in the Nielsen figures) I think some people on twitter are (deliberately) confusing the books sent out direct to customers with the orders sent out to bookshops. The bookshop pre orders obviously aren't actual sales until a customer buys one, and any unsold stock can be returned to the publisher after a few months.

It is totally bizarre that they are suddenly claiming this.

I've hit the major bestseller lists twice in my former life as a genre fiction author and they take their data from Nielsen BookScan too, and they definitely counted my 15,000 or so Amazon ebook sales as I didn't have that book in print.

IDK whether Amazon reports to the lists separately but Amazon sales are ALWAYS counted, you just also need a significant amount of sales from at least one other platform or store to qualify to go on a bestseller list (except NYT which typically requires two other platforms or stores but is actually arbitrary and leans heavily on "editor discretion" with a deep dislike for certain types of books).

So it's weird that this "glitch" and nonsensical non-explanation have now appeared.

I work in publishing, though much smaller print runs than we're talking about here.

Eye Books will have made the decision how many books to print initially, and how many to (immediately!) reprint. There's no info in the book about which printing company they've used.

I think, from looking at Amazon, that Amazon orders for this title are also fulfilled by Eye Books - they are the seller, and therefore the book is coming direct from then and not from an Amazon warehouse. (So that photo full of mail sacks could also have had some Amazon orders in there.)

Simon Edge and Eye Books will therefore know exactly how many books they have sold - either directly from their own website, via their Amazon seller account, via trade orders to bookshops, libraries etc. He/they will know better than Amazon, better than Popbitch (whoever they are) and better than Nielsen.

Just for info, buying via Amazon is totally shit for publishers like Eye Books, if what is happening (as I think it is) i that orders are being fulfilled by Eye Books themselves anyway but via their Amazon store. Amazon take a cut, do not allow any contact between customer and seller (so you've missed out on the nice emails etc) and, if it's anything like where I work, we fulfill orders as quickly as possible (so we aren't punished by Amazon's draconian time rules etc) but without any of the 'frills' a direct customer might get - so we'd definitely prioritise direct customers for signed copies, for example. Independent booksellers and publishers would far, far rather you bought from them than from Amazon, 100%.

Also, Amazon's software/algorithms/whatever... are not to be trusted at all, re bestseller lists, sold out or not, correct photo of item etc.

TL;DR: Simon Edge knows exactly how many copies he's sold; there's no way that anybody else does.

rhywlodes

Thanks for that. That explains why I still have no delivery date yet can't cancel my Amazon order 🙄
Oh well.... Lesson learnt to buy from elsewhere next time

I pre-ordered from the publisher to get a signed copy, & it arrived very quickly after the publlication date (though they'd emailed asking me to allow 14 days).

It's a great read.

My pre-ordered copy arrived yesterday. I only knew about the book from seeing it mentioned on Mumsnet, so if it really is being talked about all over the internet, then tbh, that sounds like pretty amazing free advertising.

Just looked at my Amazon account and it says being delivered Sunday. I'll give it until then and if I don't get it I'll cancel/raise a complaint and buy from elsewhere - kicking myself for buying from Amazon now.

Who's the seller you're buying from @Anothernewname123 ?

Also, Amazon's software/algorithms/whatever... are not to be trusted at all, re bestseller lists, sold out or not, correct photo of item etc.

Having published over 70 books on Amazon and via small press publishers who also publish on Amazon I have to disagree with this point. When I look at my sales reports in the back end and look at the sales rank on the front end they always match. So much so that I was part of a class action lawsuit quite a few years ago in the US against a publisher who was screwing me and many other authors over by misreporting our sales figures to us and underpaying us. We worked it out from our Amazon sales rankings.

Category bestseller ranks are total bollocks, but your overall sales rank is absolutely not, it's just also dependent on the sales of others around you (as it's a ranking) so it's never fixed and never directly corresponds to a specific amount of books, but given the number of data points (millions) it's a reasonable estimate of book sales when you're in the top 100,000 or so.

Also, if the photo is wrong, the publisher is the one who can put it right. If they put the wrong photo up that's on them, they have total control over that. When I'm the publisher, I'm the one who can sort that out. The only time that's not the case is if the image doesn't meet Amazon's guidelines and gets kicked back, but that would be a very amateur mistake for a publisher taking a cut from others' book sales to make.

Eye Books are not publishing Tough Crowd on Amazon, they are a Shropshire-based publisher who have had books printed, delivered to their offices (with many of them signed by Graham), and are now sending those orders out, presumably from their Shropshire offices, orders which have been placed through their Amazon marketplace account.
They are also selling via their own website (that's how I bought mine), fulfilling trade orders to bookshops, libraries and so on.

This is also what happens in my workplace.

As I said, I don't work at this scale, so I don't know whether, for example, large quantities of a popular book like this would go directly from the printers to the wholesalers which supply Waterstones, Blackwell's etc. I would be interested to find out.

Amazon will only know about sales that have happened through Amazon.

Eye Books are the only ones who will know exactly how many of Graham's books have been sold altogether.
Amazon is an unreliable source in this case.
This is what I was pointing out to those who were wondering.

I don't know what it's like being a publisher on Amazon, but as a publisher and bookseller who sells through Amazon marketplace, the wrong photo being added by Amazon (eg of a different edition of a book with the same title) is absolutely a problem.

The point is, his book’s doing well enough to piss some people off. And that pleases other people. Good.

I trust the Streisand effect will come into play. All this chat about his book not sellimg well should punt a few copies.